What should I buy???? Help!?

M

MechSpike

Active member
Should I buy a 16mm camera? I found a Pillard Bolex 16mm camera for only $420. It looks like it's brand new practically. I don't know if I should go 16mm or digital? I guess they are both going to be pricy, but I don't really have funds to buy a nice digital camera. I love the look of film but I've never shot on film and hardly know much about shooting on it. I'm a film projectionist, so I'm definitely familiar with running film, but when it comes to shooting on it, I'm pretty lost. Any suggestions or ideas?!?!

PS I would much rather have a 16mm camera and only be able to shoot a 10 minute film than have this expensive digital one and empty my wallet making a longer film.
 
Hi MechSpike,

I think it all comes down to what you want to do with your film/video at the end of the day. Sure the initial outlay for a good digital camcorder might be high for some people however the total cost of ownership for a 16mm camera is even higher! It's the cost of the 16mm stock, the processing and then the scanning to DV which is going to cost you a lot of money. There's also a much steeper learning curve involved with shooting film than the WYSIWYG nature of digital camcorders.

I commend you for wanting to go film however I think you might be looking at it for the wrong reasons also starting out with 16mm is taking a much more expensive risk especially as say you can't afford a digital camcorder. I would say grab yourself a Canon Auto Zoom Super 8 because they are as well known for their reliability and their running costs are much lower. Otherwise you can pickup the popular Canon HV20 for around $700 used.
 
The problem with Canon cameras is that you never really know how much work they've done because they don't have an integral hour meter so it's a bit of a gamble - especially for such an old model.
 
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Hi,

From an old, and not so wise, film teacher's perspective, I'd recommend a small video camera, like an HV30 or an HF10, and a few inexpensive tools, like a wide-angle adapter, maybe a tele, too, a decent tripod, and a few good lighting tools.

You really don't need too much to learn how to start to tell your story, and frankly, you can add a DIY adapter for a few hundred bucks to on of the small cameras just as well as a big camera, to learn about how depth of field helps to tell your story.

You likely need to concentrate on story elements, shooting, making movies, the more you shoot, the better you'll become. The cheaper that is, the more you'll do.

Film will eat you alive; I've been there, done that when that was all there was to do.

My thoughts. Feel free to disregard.
 
Well I don't want a small consumer camera. I want something that is at least semi-professional. I don't know what are the good cameras for the best price. You mentioned for a few hundred dollars more I could get a different camera? I don't even know what camera you are referring to. I've been making movies all my teenage life, but I've never actually owned my own camera. Now is the time, so I am just trying to find the easiest and cheapest way to do that without copping out and buying it at wal-mart. I would love to have an adapter, but it seems way too complex to build and way too expensive to buy. I know a decent amount about depth of field, I've been browsing this forum or quite some time soaking up all the info possible. What I really need is just a suggestion on a camera to buy thats cheaper than $1500 if possible, even a used one...
 
Well, film would be out in any case, then. One reel of film would likely be somewhere around $60 to shoot and process and transfer to video for editing - assuming you didn't go to a Moviola ;-) - and thats for for a few minutes. Shooting film isn't cheap. You likely want to forget that.

Getting a full-up professional camera will be a bigger investment, and will cost more for sure. What you will gain from if is up to you to pencil in.

What do you want and what's it worth to you?

I carry a small camera on a lot of shoots because it's small. When I travel, I carry the small camera. Small cameras are easy to carry. That's something to consider.

What you should likely do is sit down and write out points about what you need and what you want. Prioritize your list and then make up your mind based on that. Be hard and honest. I'd also be cheap. Conserving dollars is a wise thing. You don't want to be chasing technology all the time. Try to figure out what you want to say. That's the thing to chase.

You want to learn to get good focus, good exposure, good sound, and composition, and put all the sequences in a meaning order.

Even a decent camera from Wal-Mart can likely do that in talented hands, although there are some better choices to make.
 
I know exactly what I want in the camera, but I there are so many cameras out there, I don't know where to start. I don't know what cameras are good and what cameras aren't. I have used a Canon GL2 but they go for $2000 and in my opinion are WAY overpriced. I have also used an XL1, which I liked, but I apparentely it's not worth the price either...
 
MechSpike said:
I know exactly what I want in the camera, but I there are so many cameras out there, I don't know where to start. I don't know what cameras are good and what cameras aren't. I have used a Canon GL2 but they go for $2000 and in my opinion are WAY overpriced. I have also used an XL1, which I liked, but I apparentely it's not worth the price either...
Click to expand...

Can you share your "Must have" have list as well as your "Want" list?

For example, you seem to be okay with going DV instead of HD, so format is either.

XLR inputs? Mini Jack? But it has to have audio input? How do you plan to acquire audio? Are you requiring audio monitoring? But if you get a mini-jack and have XLR mics, then you have to add an adapter box or adapter cable.

What sort of zoom ratio do you need? Macro capabilities?

What sort of pre-production adjustments do you want to make to video processing? Chroma, detail, and such?

What do edit with? Do you plan to edit 4:3, 16:9, or go to another ratio? That might make yet another difference in what camera, too.

There's a bunch of talented folks here to help you out. Post a few of your needs and wants and see if some things pop up.

My best to you.
 
In my opinion, with the current camera market, there's no reason to buy such cameras as the GL2, XL1/1s, PD150/170 or VX series. If you're looking to buy used, DVX prices have drop to such an extent that you get far more bang for the buck just getting that; a DVX100 can be had for $1200-1300, 100A for $1500-1600, and a 100B or even an XL2 for around $2000.

If you're ready to step up to the newest generation of cameras, then you need to do serious research and decide on what you want. They're not as clear cut in term of features, and what you get will depend on your budget and shooting needs.
 
Well HD is not necessary, although it would be nice. I use Final Cut Pro 2 on an iMac to edit my movies. I want it to be a medium to large sized camera. I find that anything small enough to be a consumer camera is just way to fiddly to work with in terms of important features. XLR inputs would be awesome, and the more I think about it, the more I think I want at least one or two if possible. Zoom isn't too important, as long as it zooms at least a small amount then I'm okay. With ratio, I would like to shoot in 16:9, but I assume that it would be too much money to get a camera that shoots natively to it. Cameras like the GL2 don't even have a viewfinder that supports it, so shooting wide with it is a pain.

I'll be honest, I'm not too familiar with chroma, detail etc. that was mentioned. I have seen the terms around, but I don't really know what they are used for. I believe chroma is used for green screen maybe? If so, I am not really interested in using green screen.

That's about it for my needs and wants. Thanks for the help guys, you guys always seem to know what's out there for the right price.
 
The last 16mm film I shot was 2 minutes and cost me over $50 for film stock and transferring. If you plan on doing a lot of shooting digital is a far more economical alternative.
 
16mm is fun, but expensive. I still like shooting 16mm. Personally I like it better than getting a DV camera or HDV camera. Especially after Vision 3 came out. Amazed at the dynamic range on that thing. We were shooting at night, all natural lighting. And pulled detail out from everywhere. My jaw simply dropped.

Personally I am not going to shoot a major production digitally until I can use an F35.

I am fine with spending the extra money on film. But then again, I use an Aaton LTR or XTR Prod....hated using a bolex (never again). Its not cheap, and it certainly isn't for a beginner.

Like everyone said, get a digital cam and practice. To shoot film you need to know how it works in and out, how to use light meters, match colour temperatures, load the cameras (easier said than done sometimes).

You might want to rent out a film camera and play with it for a bit.
 
Okay, so after everything has been said my question still stands. What should I buy? I'll gladly go digital, but I need to know what would be a good camera for a decent price. I listed what I would like in the camera as well in my last post.
 
Well, it's not at all clear what you wanted. Your description is basically "the best I can get that's not too expensive." We need to know your budget to be able to recommend cameras.
 
a DVX100 can be had for $1200-1300, 100A for $1500-1600, and a 100B or even an XL2 for around $2000.

Huy Vu is right. Under $1500 narrows it a lot. DVX100B would be my choice in your situation and I'm starting to see them for $1800. Check the Marketplace section and do a search.
 
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