What PC should I use?

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"hope you have deep pockets. not worth getting anything besides a dual g5. add a monitor, software (FCP), you're looking at $5K"

5k? Where do you shop, price gougers are us?;=) My G5 dual with over a gig of ram was $2000. Throw in two 17" flat screen monitors, another $500 (the G5 does NOT need an addition video card for a 2nd monitor). If phatramp is a student, he can get the educational discount on FCP which brings it down to $300. So for a totally tweaked out system thats $2,800 bucks! Hey, if it's good enough for Walter Murch...

Dan
 
he he he. i love reading threads like these, even more so then the DVX vs. XL2 or film vs. dv/hdv battles people really get damned protective about their boxes! The point is you buy what works for you and your situation.

I say if you dont have a hardcore MAC, PC, Final Cut Pro, Premiere, Vegas, etc preference then buy whatever is in your price range that gets the job done. Start by building a MAC (or PC) with all the stuff you want. Print out that system's specs, go to Dell/Gateway/HP and build as close to the same thing as possible. Then go online and search for reviews of the systems you built and maybe even some of their key components.

A PC/MAC is no more difficult to understand than a MAC/PC. Really, I mean come on guys. A MAC/PC doesn't come in 50 boxes of parts and a neither is a larger puzzle to put together. The only situation where that even comes close to holding up is if "phatramp" wants to built his own system from scratch and that clearly isnt the case here.

I work at a university, and we get MACs and PCs in here all the time, so I know how they come packaged and it's exactly the same. You take out the box, the keyboard and mouse, and monitor, you follow the diagrams and plug it all together and turn it on. It (hopefully) runs. Which reminds me, whatever you buy get the highest year warranty possible too!

As for me, I just bought a new PC. My first DELL. I love it, but I am not going to now say that Premiere and Dell are the best just because that's what I have. It works great for me. You missed the boat with them though because they had 30% off all systems and combined with other rebates I ended up getting a $6K pc for just under $4K! If you care: Dell XPS Gen4, 4GB RAM, 24" WS LCD, 400GB HD, 256MB ATI Radeon X850 XT PE, etc etc. I researched the LCD (Jarred has it too) the video card and the system thoroughly before deciding.

Just buy something you can afford (or throw it on a card like I did) and start making your art! :cheesy:
 
I hope I don't get banned for saying this but...

If you are on a budget like many of us or just a student, PC has a slight advantage on the software aquisition side.

If you plan on getting into VFX, it's pretty easy to aquire sophisticated software like Boujou Three, Digital Fusion, Maya, XSI, for PC. It is much harder to "find" for these tools for the Mac, although FCP, AE, and Shake aren't too hard to find.

Also some key plug-ins for the above software is written primarily for the PC enviornment. Having a solid C++/PERL/.net environment is key for writing your own plug-ins and capitalizing on the open source ones for Maya etc.

[OPINION] If you are only editing, color correcting, and basic VFX Mac is great. If you need an all around post production system with NLE, 3D, Compositing, etc. the PC enivornment is slightly easier to swing if you can't quite afford to buy all of the latest software.

Student Licenses are great but for me I could buy an HVX and a Raid Drive for the cost of one seat of Boujou.
 
Rosestar said:
OK Monte, your crazy! So you are saying all you need to edit DVC-PRO HD (from the HVX) is a $1500 PC with Vegas ( a $2100) system. When your good friends The Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause get back, you may want to ask them to take you to see a doctor.

We started this thread with the question about what computer a new guy needs since he just got his DVX. Well that is one thing. Now you bring up that you can buy a $1500 PC, put Vegas on it and take the money you save from buying a top of the line Mac G-5 (you state $3500) and put that $$ on P2 cards for the HVX and make the assumption that you will be all set. Wow, are you in for a big surprise.

Setting up an HD post system is the point where PCs and Macs have very little difference in cost. To properly set up an HD system what ever platform you chose is going to be very expensive and at this level the PC guys lose the advantage of running to CompUSA to pick up the bargin basement PC parts and supplies to build this system.

Now I know, I am going to get lots of post swearing that with their $1500 PC with Vegas and 10 firewire drives, they will have the HD system of their dreams....

..."I do believe in fairies, I do believe in fairies, I do , I do!!!!"....
Click to expand...

You'll need a heck of a lot more than a $1,500 PC and firewire drives to edit HD. You'll need to upgrade your video card to handle all of those extra pixels - and you'll probably want to get a HD capture card, and you'll probably want to upgrade to firewire 800 if you want to use firewire drives (but big mistake anyway).

Piecing together a good HD system isn't cheap, on either end (mac or PC.) You'll need a minimum of 2 gigs of ram (more than four is recommended) and a mimimum of 128 (256 recommended) megs on your video card. You'll also want to have a RAID setup. And if you want to playback an uncommpressed stream, then you'll definately have to get a HD capture card and have an internal raid solution (SATA is probably the least expensive as far as cost/performance ratio). Forget about playing back multiple streams unless you have a fiber channel raid solution.

And then you'll need to upgrade your monitor to something that can display all those extra pixels and your NLE (check out apple's 30" Cinema HD Display, the wet dream of every HD editor)

Anyway, having all the extra bandwidth of the modern 64-bit based CPU's and motherboards with the bus running at (least) half the speed of the processor helps too. But I don't think you can get a 1,200$ 64-bit dell. I might be wrong?

You can't just toss in some fast 10k raptors and edit HD on your 1,200$ dell.
My point is - buy a G5. You've got probably half of the components you need to edit HD later down the line. Those components are mainly the processor, the motherboard, and the aritecture of the system (fast ram, fast FSB, "bandwidth to burn") You can BTO a system with a better video card, and order more ram and you're even closer, or add them yourself (I can put up to 8 gigs of ram in my machine, but right now I only have a paltry 4.5). Add another identical internal SATA drive and you've got yourself an internal SATA raid - I did and I can get read rates at over 140 megs/second (thats megabytes not bits.) Setting up a raid (on a G5, or pretty much any mac osx based mac) is childs play too, and requires no external software/hardware to buy. Its all there folks.

And FCP already edits HD.
 
mikey_b said:
MAC.... (i have the g4... but would love a g5)

take it from a person who would never be caught dead using a MAC... I thought it was the dumbest thing on earth,this was less then 12 months ago... went to school.. was forced to learn MAC, the next week, went out and bought a Power Book... NEVER USE PC AGAIN :P Used to use Adobe, and love it.... HATE it for FCP.

I am not sure. but for PC im sure they dont make a computer for video editing really.. they make regular "check your email and surf the net" computers... and if you want to edit video well, you will have to build it yourself with expensive cards and big hard drives etc.. but MAC comes with it, and you know it will work, because they were built for us!

good luck

(just to add) the shortcuts are the most incredible invention ever... when I occasionaly use my home PC for stupid surfing the net, like now... i hit the window key trying to do shortcuts... i cant stand having to actualy close things :P
Click to expand...


Shaddup.
 
There should be no confusion! For ease of use Mac is the way to go, if you want to focus on creativity and not solving major technical problems mac is it. And i speak from experience having had 2 PC Discreet Edit suites, 2 PC adobe suites and now 2 and going to 3 Mac FCP suites.
You will have problems with macs, just not as many.
 
Strangely enough, I’m about to spend $700 and put a 64-bit AMD 3500+ with dual 256MB nVidia 6800 PCIX cards in an SLI array into my machine. $700. With mobo. A terabyte’s worth of SATA RAID would be another $600 or so if I needed it.

And Vegas, too, edits HD, and did it before FCP did.

Like I said, buy what you want and be happy with it. Makes no difference to me one way or the other. But before you dismiss the alternatives, learn if what you’re saying is actually correct.

I don’t use Vegas because I love PCs. I use Vegas because it’s the best tool I’ve found. That it runs on a PC is irrelevant. If it only ran on a Mac, I’d have a Mac.
 
The real question is why J.D. has to be solving major technical problems when using a P.C.

I know; because PC's are dumb and Mac's rule.
 
I love reading these debates on my twenty dollar hammer...The ***** is when I get to the end of the last page and I'm forced to find something else to laugh at. For what it's worth I've used Macs and pc's for video and audio work. My PC station was put together by myself after careful research and consultation. It runs like a top, has no issues with capture , playback editing or NLE (premiere) If I had to spend all day under the hood with a box of tools to get it to work, You can bet I'd be buying a Mac. I don't get the debate...If your system works for you, then put a sock in it and build product. If it doesn't work...Find one that does. When I drive to work tomorrow,I'm gonna find some poor schmuck in a chevy, roll down my window and read him the Ford act........Get a grip!
 
I love these wars!

Vegas on a PC is dirt cheap, never crashes, is more functional (especially if you're using Boris), and has a faster workflow so you can get more work done quickly which translates into making more money faster.

Vegas eliminates the need for dedicated hardware that you would need to purchase to get the same functionality on the Mac.

Yeah, XP sucks, but I don't use the OS, I use Vegas which happens to run on XP.

Now that Apple is joining the dark-side, maybe soon Vegas will be available on the Mac, and FCP will go the way of Premiere.

Come on, join us on the dark side!

I've been an Apple user since the ][ days (before the ][ plus) and am also a huge Unix fan (using it since the mid '80's), but in terms of Getting Work Done, the PC has the tools and the hardware.

Ease of use doesn't enter the equation. It doesn't matter how difficult something is -- if I need that tool I'll learn it.

Ease of use is also a trap. I've seen countless musicians flee Cubase or Logic on the PC for the Mac because it's "easier", only to find out (several thousand $ later), that Cubase or Logic is exactly the same on the Mac -- difficult. And not only that, but they had to buy expensive SCSI HDs and peripherals, audio hardware is much more expensive, and they ended up with less tracks because the CPU was underpowered.

The short story: If you want to look cool and want to have lots of friends, get a Mac. If you want to get work done and make money, get a PC.
 
I too am getting a Powerbook in a few months, but Apple is now switching to Intel chips instead of IBM as they always did, so almost all programs will have to be updated, it's going to be a hassle possibly.
 
John Hudson-10,000 Posts -With Nothing to Say

John Hudson-10,000 Posts -With Nothing to Say

John_Hudson said:
The real question is why J.D. has to be solving major technical problems when using a P.C.

I know; because PC's are dumb and Mac's rule.
Click to expand...

I see that John told some else in this topic to shut up, and then alludes to me being dumb. If you want to contribute say something worthwhile.

The fact is where I work we employee about a 100 people, our computer dept has about 10 or more staff, trained to work on P.C.s, my dept prefers macs because we had so much trouble with our PC's and Adobe and Discret Edit.
I prefer to be editing and creating than having down time.
I'm not a religious mac nut but I am impressed with it's quality.
And at this point I am very unimpressed with John Hudson.
 
"I prefer to be editing and creating than having down time."

J.D., the reason Hudson's giving you crap is because he and I (and many, many others) experience precisely ZERO downtime with our PCs. My Windows XP Pro installation at home is far more stable than my OS X at work. as someone else said, though, your results may vary.

both mac and windows offer quality and stability. pick what you like, and go make some movies.

oh yeah, Hudson quit smoking a few days ago, so he's ornery. :)
 
play nice guys...

phatramp if we accomplished nothing else in here (other than stating our own personal favs which seems to be a pretty good split) at least you can see that you should do some solid research and dive into it yourself.

let us know what you decide on. otherwise i think this thread has worn out its usefulness. o'doyle rules!
 
I have used PCs at work and Macs at home.

My small business videography set-up is Mac-based. I love the OS. I keep my main production computer online 24/7, so having a virus-free system is a plus. FCP is a dream to work with. With no NLE training I edited my first project (45 minute wedding/reception) within a month of ownership. I began after ten days of toying with FCP a bit first, and completed the project part-time when time allowed.

I am excited that new Macs will take advantage of up-and-coming Intel technology (dual-core, 64bit, etc.). G5s are fantastic, but run way, way hotter than Intel chips. Apple's criteria for performance is performance per watt, and Intel stomps on IBM's G5 using that measurement. Energy efficiency means more procs per desktop and cooler/faster laptops. By 2008 we could see fast Intel dual CPU/dual core systems (essentially four processors for chewing on big HD renders).

Apple is setting themselves up well, in that their developer tools and OS are designed to produce code that will run on either type of system--IBM/Freescale PPC's or Intel x86 chips--so Apple can buy CPUs from whoever jumps into the performance lead. Seeing that they've been screwed by Motorola and IBM in the recent past, flexibility is a great thing.

I think the OS is more consistent and elegant than XP. Granted, 90% of the time you aren't even dealing with the OS, but when you are you want one you can easily use and trust. OS X is my choice here.

But I doubt anyone is REALLY being influenced by this discussion. Mac people are zealots, and PC people are used to their cheaper, more powerful, and somewhat quirkier systems. Neither are really going to be persuaded. Hence this argument will continue ad nauseum.
 
J.D. said:
I see that John told some else in this topic to shut up, and then alludes to me being dumb. If you want to contribute say something worthwhile.

The fact is where I work we employee about a 100 people, our computer dept has about 10 or more staff, trained to work on P.C.s, my dept prefers macs because we had so much trouble with our PC's and Adobe and Discret Edit.
I prefer to be editing and creating than having down time.
I'm not a religious mac nut but I am impressed with it's quality.
And at this point I am very unimpressed with John Hudson.
Click to expand...

Why are you going into manicness? I asked about what "...major technical problems when using a P.C." are you experiencing and why? That was the question. But immediatley you jump into defense mode.

The MAC/PC debate isn't even worth contributing to seriously as it is so chill with the "If you want to blah blah blah..." comments.

Frizzle nailed it. We don't have any problems. Seems it's the MAC guys that always say "PC's give you so many problems...."

I wasn't alluding to you being dumb. Seems you have some issues already as quick as you went into Defense mode. If I wanted to say you were dumb I would say it; trust me. No really. I would.

You're not impressed with me? Damn. I was trying so hard as it was.

As far as telling one person to 'Shaddup' it's because his post was about as substantial as shite "MACs are cool; PC's are dumb..." was the jist of that post.

So take it easy and don't be so defensive. Welcome to the forum by the way. You might want to relax a little if your gonna hang. We're not a high-strung bunch and I don't think anyone is here to impress you.

And yeah; 39 1/2 hours without a smoke now. MUst KILL PEOPLE. Must Fall Down. Agglkjfgmvdlidjhb;xmlcigjbhb.ci/bvmoihvj
 
Ok, enough with the ridiculous MAC/PC debates. I think everyone's had their chance to give an opinion and then come back for seconds. Fair thread, I dub thee----locked.
 
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