What makes a Producer a Producer?

M

mcbob

Veteran
Remote production... I have a serious meh/feh relationship with it.

I get it, it's the new model. People want to underbid everyone and own the project and collect the margin, but don't want to fly to and fro and get boots on the ground, especially on easy shoots... so they take on the role of "producer," and effectively just hand a formula to a usualy one-man-band outfit to make it into something, and take all the credit when it goes well (or lay all the blame when things don't). It's more work for me because they're hiring some local schmoe (yours truly, perhaps), but it's more WORK for me because... hey, I'm actually the field producer (plus DP and audio).

Some of these outfits are open and reasonable... most aren't. Some put in the work, set expectations, secure parking, times, locations, schedules, scripts... and some don't. Some are actual remote producers... and many aren't. They're production coordinators, maybe, at best... shysters and vultures at worst.

I figure this is enough of an industry thing that a community vent time may be in order.


In one example, a remote producer was upset with me that I hadn't told him I'd initially forgotten my prompter setup. Since I'd solved the problem with minor delay (wife ran it into the studio), I didn't think I had to... same way I don't relay that one of my lights didn't work or there was air handling noise to deal with on set. Stuff pops up, we solve it and move on... par for the course. "As the producer, it looks bad when I'm not aware of these problems" was the remote gripe... and my unvoiced response, 'well, you weren't the field producer... do you really excpect, or even need to know every minor detail of the shoot day? Isn't it enough that the media was delivered above spec and well before schedule?'


In one recent job, the 'producer' had worked up the script. OK. I did a long back-and-forth with them to set the shoot schedule and budget. Plenty of time could have been saved working directly with the end client, but the 'producer' seemed incredibly reluctant to share any of the direct contact information (I only got the exact address and on-site phone the night before). The end client would be paying me directly. The budget got cut in half. I juggled crew and gear and made it happen anyway... on the day of the shoot, the end client wanted to change a couple things about the script... hey, you're paying me, so OK... but let's shoot it both ways just in case. Finished the shoot. Set delivery expectations with the end client. Finished the edit. On review, the 'producer' asked that I not share early cuts with the client (???). The 'producer' demanded I change several things back as scripted (which the end client didn't want).

That's one case where I'm not sure what the 'producer' actually did other than write a draft script, find an actual producer, and then get in the way.


Of course I could get into the shoots where subjects weren't, you know, INFORMED that I'd be showing up at all that day, let alone general failures to prep the subject or location, or given call and between-location transit times completely oblivious to parking and traffic and gear rustling, but that's enough blabbery from me for now.
 
Not sure if I have any real input but when I shoot (as opposed to doing prompter or gripping or editing) these are almost exclusively the types of shoots I’m on. So I feel your pain.
 
In these situations the 'Producer' is actually your client and should be treated as such. It's up to you to get the scope of work required and judge if the budget they have provided is worth it to you or not. Like many other areas of our industry their are multiple producers on a project. In this case they are acting more like the executive producer or line producer and expect you to take care of the field producing of the setup. Forcing these clients to pay for the field work you do is the only way to make them care to do the leg work themselves. If you are willing to do the field work and don't charge for it then of course these producers will try and take advantage of it.

I've been fortunate to avoid any situations like your example of the gripes from afar. In these situations I always send a shoot report to the producer that hired me that goes through all camera notes and any issues and compromises made during the shoot. Sometimes its not the producer trying to be a jerk but someone who has a lot on the line and can't be on set so they worry because that is what producers do and in the end they deal with the client.
 
mcbob said:
.... "As the producer, it looks bad when I'm not aware of these problems" was the remote gripe... and my unvoiced response, 'well, you weren't the field producer... do you really excpect, or even need to know every minor detail of the shoot day? Isn't it enough that the media was delivered above spec and well before schedule?'....
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I don't have a problem with the producer's comments. The producer wants to present themselves as being fully aware of all the details of the shoot, thus presenting to the client that nothing is being missed by the producer due to their way of operating. It presents a "this producer is on top of it and will take care of me' facade. A casual comment by the client mentioning the teleprompter issue would leave the producer not knowing what to say about how it got solved, leaving them short in the conversation. If the producer wasn't aware of it, it leaves the client wondering if there will be corrections taken to avoid mistakes in the future.
 
I think the threadstarter's gist is that the producer's role in these situations was superfluous, other than a conduit of money. Imagine the shoot without the producer, where mcbob worked directly with the customer. Nothing seems lost. In fact, things seem improved. In one instance, the customer would have got what he really wanted. In both instances, mcbob would be able to work faster and with more focus, not having to report everything to someone else, who would not be able to help. Yet somehow this person inserted himself between the customer and the real producer (mcbob).

The only thing I can say is that this phenomenon is not constrained to the world of filmmaking. In most people's worlds, these strange figures are called Managers. The experience is so widespread and so ridiculous that large sums of money have been made lampooning the situation, in TV Shows (The Office), movies (Office Space), and comic strips (Dilbert).
 
I think this is a great question. I've for years felt that term "producer" gets thrown around a lot on smaller budgets where they are really just a sales person trying to be coordinator, and usually not a good one at that.
For awhile I was getting a lot of these calls from out of market places.... Some were semi-legit, others not so much. All of them, it seemed, essentially wanted me to field produce as a one person gig but their rates were always low... frankly lower than I would even charge for myself & a camera... never mind having to "produce" / coordinate, etc. while on location. Never say never but I just pass when I get the feeling it's all my work they'll simply mark up to the client. And I've no idea what's been promised on that end.
It's become a sort of red flag for me when talking to them on the phone - when they ask an hourly rate or want you to do a 4 or 5 minute produced video and say you can do it in 2 hours. No thanks. One was affiliated with yellow pages... they somehow convinced clients to purchase these bundled ads, web site and video. But ask a few technical questions - and you quickly realize they know very little about video... are essentially sales people who need someone to do the work they've promised the poor place that gave them a big check.
 
markfpv said:
I think this is a great question. I've for years felt that term "producer" gets thrown around a lot on smaller budgets where they are really just a sales person trying to be coordinator, and usually not a good one at that.
For awhile I was getting a lot of these calls from out of market places.... Some were semi-legit, others not so much. All of them, it seemed, essentially wanted me to field produce as a one person gig but their rates were always low... frankly lower than I would even charge for myself & a camera... never mind having to "produce" / coordinate, etc. while on location. Never say never but I just pass when I get the feeling it's all my work they'll simply mark up to the client. And I've no idea what's been promised on that end.
It's become a sort of red flag for me when talking to them on the phone - when they ask an hourly rate or want you to do a 4 or 5 minute produced video and say you can do it in 2 hours. No thanks. One was affiliated with yellow pages... they somehow convinced clients to purchase these bundled ads, web site and video. But ask a few technical questions - and you quickly realize they know very little about video... are essentially sales people who need someone to do the work they've promised the poor place that gave them a big check.
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You have described 90% of the people who contact me for shooting.

At any rate I think what makes them the producers and us the schmucks that work for the producers is that they have the sales skills to land/find these jobs in the first place. Unless we know/learn how to cold call/suss out/create work from scratch those positions will continue to be a need.
 
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Producer = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Producers_Guild_of_America

Anyone else is just a guy or gal working in the industry with a preferred title. Some may and do work harder than others.

___

You know how many "DPs" or "DoPs" there are? (You don't want to know.)

I tell people I know to stop calling themselves that until they make something that has made millions. (They don't like that.)
 
I had one of these gigs yesterday and they never cease to amaze me. I understand if you're a client that often has shoots in multiple cities it's nice to deal with one company that will vet and hire a crew for you...but you're often getting s*%ttier service than if you just spent a few emails hiring a local.

We showed up for a simple single cam interview with a doctor but our off-site "producer" failed to mention that hey we might need a space to film in. We moved it from the doctors office, which was the smallest room I've ever seen...to the second smallest room that I've ever seen since that was all that was available. All becauase the "producer" couldn't spent ten minutes on the phone with someone that could help us. We made it work though and the client that was with us was happy...but it really makes me wonder how much of a mark up the middleman was taking for doing almost nothing. I'm trying to completely cut out this type of shoot, but when you have a free day and the money is passable it's hard to say no.
 
Here's an adjoining sack-o-worms... what's a reasonable margin for this type of remote producer work? (I know, 'as much as you can get away with')
 
Ah, the remote producer or cloud production companies...

A flash website with lots of stock photos and video clips - The charge the end client 80%-90% of the going rate and then hire students or anyone really for a few hundred dollars.
Inevitably the product falls far short of what the client was expecting, some of the comments are fun - "We can not accept anymore audio from on-camera mics" being my favourite.
They have no phone numbers, its subcontractor agents working on commission and from their own homes/apartments on Skype.
 
ha...those kind of "producers" asking those type of questions are the ones that I mentioned in post #10...just people with a preferred title.

Real producers will not have much contact with the crew (and would not ask that question). Their subordinates will deal with you. [The AP is usually working with the DP/DoP.]

I work as a "producer" but I am embarrassed to call myself that until it's relevant (millions of views or millions of dollars).

Just a preferred title for now.
 
I've just finished a project with an executive producer and assistant producer. 8 weeks and the assistant producer was with me for 4 days, after that he was on other projects and I gave him daily reports and asked questions over the phone. The executive producer was with me for one day. Neither interfered with any technical or directorial decisions apart from when asked for an opinion. They did sort contractual issues, sort some additional finance, dealt with sponsors who made my life misery, and they would quiz me on why I did this, or did that, or spend so much money on certain trivial features. Technical people did their stuff, the creative people did their stuff and the money and policy people did theirs. I'm not sure either of my two producers understood anything about the actual production process, apart from the end product. Works fine for me. I had a cast/crew of 20 working directly for me, plus another 20 or so of hired in crew in the various departments - or people who came with certain equipment as specialists.
 
mcbob said:
Here's an adjoining sack-o-worms... what's a reasonable margin for this type of remote producer work? (I know, 'as much as you can get away with')
Click to expand...

To answer my own question... after a bit of research, I'm seeing 10% on the low end to 100% on the "grab the money and run" end. Jeesh.
 
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