What is the difference between these two sliders?

I

ironpony

Carbonite Member
http://www.kesslercrane.com/pocket-dolly-s/116.htm

I was thinking of choosing between those ones maybe, but I do not get the difference between them. The one on the left has a crank system, whatever that is, and the one on the right does not. Can anyone tell me the difference, as I do not fully understand it. Perhaps neither of these is right for me though. Do they make sliders where the slider itself can turn on a tripod? Plus do they make any that are perhaps longer for DSLRs? Plus can these sliders hook onto my fluid head tripod or are there any catches? Thanks.
 
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the differences in the three kesslers are:

pocket dolly: 38" with crank
pocket dolly basic: 38" no crank
pocket dolly traveler length: 26" with crank

most people prefer to simply move the sled with their hands rather than use a crank, so i wouldnt let that make your decision.
 
Okay thanks. I got that. But I am thinking of going with a real slider though, as most DYI camera gear I have tried making just isn't as effective. Steadicams for example. I don't need the crank I don't think, and the hand option is good for me. But no one makes sliders where the slider itself can turn on the tripod right? Say if you wanted to slide the camera, and make a V shaped track back and forth for example?
 
as most DYI camera gear I have tried making just isn't as effective
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that would be a self-defeating perspective. because sometimes the "diy" stuff can actually deliver better end product... see below.

But no one makes sliders where the slider itself can turn on the tripod right?
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no. thats not right. ALL of the kesslers you linked to have center tripod mounts underneath where you can pivot the slider rig on the tripod head.

i cant speak for the kesslers because i havent tried it with them. but i CAN speak to other types (specifically the variety of igus bearing products) that when you try to pivot the rig by twisting the sled as you move, putting more pressure on one rail than the other, that the bearings can bind and cause skipping. THAT is one SHINING benefit to the one that i sent you the link for. uneven pressure doesnt effect the smoothness of the slide. sending you another link showing this...

BTW, im not trying to sell you anything (not specifically anyway) ive just had a lot of experience with these things and can speak to the good and bad of many of them, and trying to direct you to the best solution for your stated needs.
 
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http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Scratch-Dent-...ht_1362wt_1397

Does this one pivot on the tripod stand, it does not say.
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any slider that has a center tripod mount can, in theory pivot as you move it.
the variable is in the specific physics behind the sliding mechanism.

i know from experience that the igus bearing products CAN bind as you twist. and though ive not tried it with roller betrings models, i would imagine that it might possibly have an effect on velocity.

ive heard a lot of complaints about he general mechanics of the type of the last one you linked to.
 
Okay thanks. Yeah that one does look a bit cheap. In the Kessler video of those sliders, it shows that the slider can move up and down and around, on the tripod stand, kind of like a jib. Is this because of the type of tripod stand it is on, that has something on it, that moves it that, way, or is it the actual slider that has that gadget on it?
 
i do have to say that im having a little problem with your perception of "diy" what makes something diy? it doesnt have a logo on it? or its not silver and black? it wasnt mass produced in a factory in china?

if someone has access to a cnc milling machine, this last one you linked to is as diy as anything else. that metal track is simply a retail furniture/display support. somebody just milled a sled and a couple of end caps.
 
In the Kessler video of those sliders, it shows that the slider can move up and down and around, on the tripod stand, kind of like a jib. Is this because of the type of tripod stand it is on, that has something on it, that moves it that, way, or is it the actual slider that has that gadget on it?
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there is nothing inherent to the kessler product that enables that. any slider with a mounted sled (which is just about all of them) and a center tripod mount can achieve that.
if you also have the kessler hercules head with their slider product it might be a little easier since they were built to work together. but again, technically, any good tripod as a mount or adding a fluid head onto the camera sled should get you there...
 
Okay thanks. I'm not talking about the mounted head though. In the video, underneath the slider, is another head that can tip the slider. Do most sliders have that head attached underneath?
 
NO slider HAS a head attached underneath. but ANY slider that has a center mount (and they either have them or they dont) with 1/4" or 3/8" (which is again, most of the retail offerings) can mount onto any tripod (via the plate youd typically mount to your camera) for the movement youre looking for.

the question is will the mechanics or the actual slider work smoothly when uneven pressure is applied.
 
That's true. Well I could use something soon for a project, and I think I will try that DYI method. I have a fluid head tripod now. So is this slider loud I forgot to ask? I will be using it during dialogue shots.
 
and I think I will try that DYI method
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"that DIY method" isnt quite as easy to assemble as it may look. and that may have been the problem i had in marketing it.
though it may LOOK like a quickie, home depot effort. there is actually a good bit of precision work that goes into making it.

my original prototype was simply bolted at each end and while it "worked" the rails swam a bit in the middle. you have to use (or mill) rigid support under the metal rails and attach them to the base to get the best results.

and you also need to position the plastic sliders precisely to keep the sled elevated off the metal rails and to keep the motion consistent

So is this slider loud I forgot to ask? I will be using it during dialogue shots.
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i have yet to see a slider that is so noisy that the noise it generates is so loud it will be picked up by a shotgun or lav on a subject 8 to 10 feet away.
the problem will come if you are using the built in camera mic. and just about EVERY slider ive used makes SOME sound that might be picked up by the on-camera mic.
 
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I will be most likely using a hypercardioid for indoor locations, and a shotgun for outdoor, if that's okay. Sometimes they can pick up things like that. I don't need the jib movements though. As long as I can attach a fluid head on top, and pivot the slider on a tripod at the same time, me and my camera assistant are happy guys for this movie.

Not sure if I want DYI as it seems as in every DYI there is always a swam someone talks about on these forums. Not that I knocking your people's products or anything, they are good. But I just the one that is right for me. Usually I end up having to rebuy another item of a different sort, cause there is always a catch, which is why if I shop for one, I want to be real careful.
 
ill tell you from experience. that NO product is perfect. i used to have a $3000+ zacuto rig. and though it was awesome and a pleasure to hold. it didnt really address my typical shooting needs. so i wound up selling it off and using a combination of other gear (fig rig, ikan, cb-107, etc) that better suited the way i shoot.

i will tell you also from experience. that the there are nearly NO performance drawbacks to the one i sent you. its as or more silent than any other slider ive used and the only workflow drawbacks are you have to be aware to pick up the camera (or simply dont let go and walk away from it) after your move.

if you have skype (or other video chat capability), id be happy to demo it for you in person.
 
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Thanks, I don't have skype though. A lot of the tutorials so very slow movements, but I am looking to some more faster ones actually.
 
you will run into a number of issues doing a fast movement with a slider:
1. if youre using a dslr or other cmos camera - jello effect (but thats an issue of the camera - not the slider)
2. if youre shooting 24 frame - judder (but again, a camera issue rather than slider issue)
3. last BIGGEST problem in my experiences is SMOOTH STOPS. nearly every slider ive used moves so freely (especially the roller-bearing types) that it can be very hard to get slow and firm stops with. thats one of the benefits of the one i sent you. the friction that keeps it smooth also makes it a lot easier to slow to a solid stop.

but then again, fast slider moves are typically better used for transition shots where you dont actually see the starts and stops anyway

again, im not trying to sell you on mine. it just seems that it addresses just about every need you have (for less than half of the cost of other suitable options)
 
It seems it might! I have never had a problem with fast moving DSLRs though. I know other people say they have, but I shot an action chase sequence with one on a DYI steadicam, and didn't have a problem. I thought about using the steadicam for these slide shots, but a slide just looks nicer and more pro.
 
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