what is better great mics or forgiving mics for one man band

P

philiplipetz

Veteran
I am a one man band doc maker who is trying to get audio under control. In my type of docs audio is 70% of the imapct, info heavy content, and i have never got it right. Mostly interiors, talking heads, and walking through sets.

I almost bought a Schoeps CMC641 and one of the most respected audio names warned me off saying that such high quality mics will reveal the weakness in my systems and my beginner technique. Should I be using more forgiving mics with lesser repuatations?

I have been filming using XLR wired Sanken COS11 and DPA 4061 lavs into an Oade Brothers modified Marantz 661 two track. I have a 816 and a NTG2 but do not use them much as I film indoors right now. I am shopping for wireless, and a boom mic for indoors and out (I like a more open sound than I get with lavs).

Some people suggest the Sanken CS3e as working both indoors and out, others the Sanken CSS5 in mono mode. Still others say that with my primitive technique, and the fact that I will frequently be using fixed booms while filming I am wasting my money.

So the question is if a person like me, a visual guy not an audio guy, will be hurt by buying great equipment that I will never use to its full potential? Will I get better sound with mics that do not demand great technique? What should I do?
 
To be perfectly blunt, get a sound guy. You say yourself that the audio is 70% of the shoot and that you're a visual guy.

You're trying to throw money at the problem, but you're off-target. Spend the money on someone who already has the gear and knows what to do with it. Technique is FAR more important than you seem to believe it is.
 
I'll second the CS3e (+ the COS11s you already have)... aside from using a soundguy, that will be your most likely combo for success.

If you have DPA lavs then you know they're about the best sounding lavs you can get, but I'm guessing you find the most success in the COS11 due to the form-factor and mounting options, plus lack of handling noise issues (compared to other lavs... which equals better overall sound in the end)... and it's the same basic rule for the CS3e... the MKH series (and Schoeps) may spec out better, but you'll have more success more often with a CS3e.
 
Gohanto said:
?
Is there any reason you'd suggest using a stereo mic on a boom?
Click to expand...

I would say use a mic stand. The guy said he was using a "fixed" boom, which I took to mean he had the mic set up in a stationary position. Maybe "fixed boom" means something else.

As for stereo mic, a one man band is basically a band, and to capture a band indoors I would suggest using a stereo mic, not a shotgun. The music will have more dimension in stereo. I would never suggest a stereo mic on a boom held by an operator, and recording dialog.
 
Gohanto said:
A one-man-band refers to working by yourself. Not recording music.
Click to expand...


Ha! I am aware of the term, as I am a one man band myself! The way it hit me was that he was making a doc about one man bands. Too funny. It's been a long week... But now I have an idea for a doc! I must go find actual one man bands across the country and film them.

Sorry to muddy the waters...
 
It has been a long week, and I thank you all.

By fixed boom I meant a mic fixed above the speaker's head as if held by a boom operator. I agree that hiring a good audio person is best. I have a great audio person for editing, and ADR/VOs, but the way I film is a minute here and a minute there. So, I cannot hire an audio person without wasting 95% of his/her time. Not like doing a drama.

I have looked for an audio person I could hire to set up the system but the people I have found do not want to teach their secrets, and my post production audio guy runs a recording studio and has no experience in field recording.

You are right that I am trying to throw money at the problem, but trying to limit the money.

There is that horrible moment when I realized that all of this talk about cameras had insulated me from the one factor that was needed to make my audience feel comfortable - great audio. The problem is that the current advances in cameras got me used to throwing money at technical problems, but that does not work in audio.

There is this crazy feeling of being impotent, having only part of the puzzle and feeling the lack of the other part. Don't know what happened but as I got closer to fliming this long form doc something snapped I realized that years of planning and storyboards had ignored audio.
 
MattinSTL said:
I'll second the CS3e (+ the COS11s you already have)... aside from using a soundguy, that will be your most likely combo for success.

If you have DPA lavs then you know they're about the best sounding lavs you can get, but I'm guessing you find the most success in the COS11 due to the form-factor and mounting options, plus lack of handling noise issues (compared to other lavs... which equals better overall sound in the end)... and it's the same basic rule for the CS3e... the MKH series (and Schoeps) may spec out better, but you'll have more success more often with a CS3e.
Click to expand...

You are right. Love the DPA sound, when it works. But if I only have a minute I reach for the Sanken lavs.

So, you seem to be hinting that Sanken makes the best combination of quality and forgiveness. Yes?
 
Yes...

The only reason to NOT use Sanken is if you can't afford it.

(Some will say that you should also have an RF rejecting gun in the bag... such as MKH416 or Rode NTG-3, which happens to be my recommendation for the people that can't afford a CS3e.)

I've used both Countryman and Sanken lavs for years... and the Sanken COS11 is easily my first choice.
 
I'm thinking about getting the Sanken COS-11 lav for my G3 wireless. I'm really tired of the ME-2 that the sennheiser's have. I've been using one for 5 years now and it just sounds lifeless to me. I hear the cos11 will cut well with boomed mics. I'm using a Rode NTG-3, and plan on getting one of those AKG BlueLine CK93 hypers for indoors. Being a OMB myself though, I want to be able to lav-up my subject and follow them around, with ambient sound captured by shotgun or hyper on the camera. Of course if I did anything real or budgeted I'd go with a guy running a boom.

I'll get this little vampire clip too for the Sanken:
http://www.pro-sound.com/BS/SPSSSANKENCLIP.html
 
This is my first time to post here. I appreciate the all great information.

Would any of the users of the DPA 4060 or 4061 lavs care to comment on their experience using them -- challenges, problems, esp. vs the Sanken COS-11. Do most of the challenges arise with trying to hide the mic? I am looking to invest in some new gear to support my work -- which is sometimes as a solo shooter for documentary and corporate projects where mic concealment is not always (but sometimes is) essential. Using HMC-150 & DVX100A.

Thanks again for the generous sharing here.

David DeWitt
Austin, TX
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top