What do you charge for a commercial

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pulpwoody

Well-known member
I'm working with a local municipality that wants a psa shot. They have a decent budget, so that's not much of an issue. What is an issue is how much to charge for this sucker.

Background: They want a 15, possible 30 second video spot for tv/web/theaters, etc. I'm producing, coming up the the script, the entire idea from the ground up, shooting, editing. It looks like right now, I'm doing EVERYTHING.

I don't know what the visuals are for sure, or how many hours/days of shooting, conceptualizing it will take, but I need to give them a ball park and get a deposit. The last project I did for them was a freebie, get my name out there thing, which is paying off for sure, but I didn't charge, so I have no reference for billing.

Any thoughts?
 
Hmm, well I guess it depends how much equipment and time is involved, what kind of crew you're going to have, etc., but I would not charge less than $5,000 to $10,000 for that kind of work.
 
Right - ask them what their budget is, then deliver the best spot you can within that budget. Leave no money on the table, but don't just grab it either, use it to make the very best, most successful, most effective spot you can.
 
Yeah, I want to do the best job I've ever done on this thing. They have pretty high hopes, and I want to meet them. As much for myself as for them.

So I guess what I'm hearing, is go off of the budget they have. The budget they have is pretty good, so I can focus all of my time on this project to make is shine, so that's really cool.

Is that what you, the experienced, savvy producers would do? Would you ask the budget and say, yeah, that's about what I would charge, or take a few bucks less so it doesn't look like a money grab? If I could actually budget this thing, I would know...you know?
 
I would ask what their budget is and ask for a copy of the script or what the general concept is. In preproduction, information is power. Let them know that the budget sounds good on the surface. You have a couple of questions for them. Does the budget cover just your costs - pre-production, physical production - post? What about distribution? Does their budget also cover duplication, materials, marketing and any miscellaneous costs?

Take whatever they give you (information-wise) and break it down. If you have a simple stage day with a talking head, that's infinitely different than three locations in and out of doors with dialogue, vehicles, locations and whatever else features in this PSA. They run the gamut.

Commit to looking it over and "doing your best to make it work" within their budget. You'll be back with them in a day / three days / a week. What is their timeline? Can you have it for a little bit to break it down?

Make it conversational and, whatever you do, get information as if you making a profit on the spot while delivering the best possible product depends on it.

e
 
Thanks for the input Eric.

There is no script yet....I'm writing it. I'm coming up with the concept. They told me what their focus is for the PSA, now, it's up to me to come up with a concept, catch phrase, script, location, actors, whatever, everything and anything. I'll be casting, writing, shooting, editing. The budget covers everything, including distribution, but that's a different ball of wax. Not my deal. I'll find out what they have budgeted just for production, if they have it broken down like that.

At this point, it's ALL me. Esentially, I just became an ad agency. A cool challenge.
 
Hmmm

Hmmm

What I don't get is what is the "disconnect" with clients between video work and ANY OTHER THING in the entire world that they pay for? I don't understand this...

You don't ask how much lunch costs. You don't ask how much a car costs. And you don't ask how much a shirt costs. That's because lunch can be between like $3 and $300, and cars can be $500 to several million dollars, and you can get a shirt for like $1 or pay $400 or more for a nice dress shirt.

Asking what it costs to make a commercial is retarded. It's very simple. How much money do you have to spend? I'll make a commercial for that. It doesn't work where I tell you how much it costs, then you pay me. It works like you tell me how much you want to spend, and I'll make you the best product I can with that amount of money. It's just like anything else. If I tell you I have $20,000 to spend on a car, you show me the best cars I can get for $20K -- I understand that for that price, I'm not going to get a Ferrari, but neither am I going to be happy with a used Honda Civic. I expect to see a $20,000 car, something fairly decent. The same should be true of a client. Give me $5,000 for a commercial you're going to get something extremely simple and easy, but give me $25,000 and you'll get something very impressive comparatively. The money will be spent and the quality will be obvious.
 
The last one I did was only a grand and I cut the 15 from the 30.
It was only a half day of shooting and a day of editing and this was an opportunity to build an on-going relationship with a new client.
 
JonathanLB said:
What I don't get is what is the "disconnect" with clients between video work and ANY OTHER THING in the entire world that they pay for? I don't understand this...

You don't ask how much lunch costs. You don't ask how much a car costs. And you don't ask how much a shirt costs. That's because lunch can be between like $3 and $300, and cars can be $500 to several million dollars, and you can get a shirt for like $1 or pay $400 or more for a nice dress shirt.

Asking what it costs to make a commercial is retarded. It's very simple. How much money do you have to spend? I'll make a commercial for that. It doesn't work where I tell you how much it costs, then you pay me. It works like you tell me how much you want to spend, and I'll make you the best product I can with that amount of money. It's just like anything else. If I tell you I have $20,000 to spend on a car, you show me the best cars I can get for $20K -- I understand that for that price, I'm not going to get a Ferrari, but neither am I going to be happy with a used Honda Civic. I expect to see a $20,000 car, something fairly decent. The same should be true of a client. Give me $5,000 for a commercial you're going to get something extremely simple and easy, but give me $25,000 and you'll get something very impressive comparatively. The money will be spent and the quality will be obvious.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, and nice reference with the car thing. Do you have examples of a 5k spot vs. a 20k spot that you shot?
 
I kinda get the line of thought here, but I think that's a bad way of going about pricing a show - regardless of whether it's a commercial, music video or feature. You have to have the concept, the pitch (and endless animatics), the approval, outline, script, the revisions, the approval(s) from legal and then break it down. Unless you derail somewhere in the approvals.

Having $150k and saying that you'll spend to that isn't how you do it. How much do you think the technical side of a Mac versus PC commercial costs? Well, on the surface, it could be very little, but who knows how paying Justin Long figures into it? I don't, but I think he is well-compensated. Anyway, those spots could be directed by Michael Bay for all I know. If there were more explosions and gratuitous exposure of Megan Fox's chest, I'd say they were definitely Bay. The point here is that they cost what they cost and are more effective than almost any car commercial or Hamburger Helper spot I've ever seen. Ever. Definitely funnier than those Superbowl placements with the sock-puppet dog holding what was obviously a fake miniature microphone.

I could shoot those ads to look the same for $20k or I could shoot them for a million dollars. We could have one actor in Bangalore and one in St. Paul, Missouri. Okay, so nobody is shooting in St. Paul, but you get the point.

So, I argue that, in producing a commercial, you start not with the budget but with The CONCEPT and follow the normal path of epiphany, concentration, research, despair, panic, exposure, relief, consternation, exploitation, celebration, frustration, exhaustion, conceit and, finally... distraction, only when you've moved on to the same process for the next spot.

e
 
pulpwoody said:
That's a good point, and nice reference with the car thing. Do you have examples of a 5k spot vs. a 20k spot that you shot?
Click to expand...

I wish I did, I just have examples of my music video work, from $1,500 to $10,000. Those costs are kind of not that "accurate" though as they were done on spec, i.e. for my reel basically, and didn't factor in equipment costs or my time, so you may have to realistically state them as like $2,500 to $15,000. But the point is I think you can see the difference quite clearly on screen. I like them all -- it was just a matter of the scale of what I was doing being much bigger when I spent more money.

My $2,800 video Ignis Fatuus has gotten into 5 film festivals so far and won Best Music Video - Rock at one festival. Winded (the $10,000 one) has gotten into 17 festivals and won twice. So it does make a difference but I love both for different reasons.
 
Keep it simple

STEP 1
[a] Start with Client Budget and establish deliverables
Create the Creative Concept within budget
[c] Get Approval of Creative Concept (This may go through many revisions)

Step 2
[d] Scheduling of production (2-3 day shoot)
[e] Vendor Estimates (Cast & Crew)
[f] Production Budgeting Finalized (This should be done in AICP budget form)
[g] Submit production budget and get a Purchase Order Number from client

Step 3
[h] Client Deposit 50%
Pre Production - Casting (Get approval of on screen talent!) Wardrobe, Script notes, Shot list, etc
[j] Production - Ex: 2-3 days to Shoot it.
[k] Post Production - Editing, Voice Over, Music,

Step 4
[l] Present First Rough Cut to client
[m] Make Revisions to Edit
[n] Complete SFX, Titles, Mixing
[o] Present New Cut with revisions to client
[p] Get approval. (It's possible they may want another pass of revisions)
[q] Deliver a Master to client
[r] Invoice for balance of 50%

Take a bow.
 
mrmoe said:
Keep it simple

STEP 1
[a] Start with Client Budget and establish deliverables
Create the Creative Concept within budget
[c] Get Approval of Creative Concept (This may go through many revisions)

Step 2
[d] Scheduling of production (2-3 day shoot)
[e] Vendor Estimates (Cast & Crew)
[f] Production Budgeting Finalized (This should be done in AICP budget form)
[g] Submit production budget and get a Purchase Order Number from client

Step 3
[h] Client Deposit 50%
Pre Production - Casting (Get approval of on screen talent!) Wardrobe, Script notes, Shot list, etc
[j] Production - Ex: 2-3 days to Shoot it.
[k] Post Production - Editing, Voice Over, Music,

Step 4
[l] Present First Rough Cut to client
[m] Make Revisions to Edit
[n] Complete SFX, Titles, Mixing
[o] Present New Cut with revisions to client
[p] Get approval. (It's possible they may want another pass of revisions)
[q] Deliver a Master to client
[r] Invoice for balance of 50%

Take a bow.
Click to expand...


That's a good system. I like that. So when you are coming up with the concept, how much does that cost? I know how much I charge for shooting and editing of course, but for the concept part? Hourly? Daily? Weekly? Flat fee? How much would a producer charge for their services?

All these costs need to be quantified and itemized. I can't just show up and say, you have 10 grand, well it will cost ten grand! In my opinion, that's not very professional, but everyone has their own way. I'm not here to say one way is better than the other. Do what you are comfortable, and what has worked for you.

For me, I want to be able to itemize these things not only for this project, but for future ones as well. Knowing things such as the cost for coming up with a concept, storyboarding, that kinda thing. That's not free, it's still work. So how much?

You see what I'm getting at? Everything has a cost in this world. If it's not money it's time, and since time IS money......
 
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