Done a little CC but just wondering what people do and dont like about these two image captures. Shot on DVX100A with anamorphic lense.
What do you and dont you like about these two images?
- Thread starter Noel Evans
- Start date
It looks like you might not have these totally unsqueezed.
Suggestions on the lighting --
First, it's a bit flat. Contrast is your friend -- it brings out depth and interest. In both grabs, your lighting is pretty much parallel to the camera angle, and while you have shadows, they don't do anything to bring out depth. Light more from the sides, or at least at an angle.
Also, you're getting some color temperature confusion in both. You're getting very blue light from outside and lighting your subjects with very orange light. If you're going to use natural light in conjunction with tungsten or filament bulbs, you might look at gelling the lights with CTB gels. The first grab is worse in this regard, because the whole back room is bluish. You can get away with it more in the second grab, because it makes sense that the outside might look different from the inside, but you're still better off trying to make them match better. Always white balance after you light, of course.
As for the comps, it's hard to say without knowing the context.
Suggestions on the lighting --
First, it's a bit flat. Contrast is your friend -- it brings out depth and interest. In both grabs, your lighting is pretty much parallel to the camera angle, and while you have shadows, they don't do anything to bring out depth. Light more from the sides, or at least at an angle.
Also, you're getting some color temperature confusion in both. You're getting very blue light from outside and lighting your subjects with very orange light. If you're going to use natural light in conjunction with tungsten or filament bulbs, you might look at gelling the lights with CTB gels. The first grab is worse in this regard, because the whole back room is bluish. You can get away with it more in the second grab, because it makes sense that the outside might look different from the inside, but you're still better off trying to make them match better. Always white balance after you light, of course.
As for the comps, it's hard to say without knowing the context.
capitalP
Veteran
Good point with the lighting. I had no idea about this, but lighting is sooo important in good film making. As david points out, the blue light from the outside makes it look bad. Now I don't know how important the position of the actors are to you in those scenes, but was it possible to avoid the open doors or windows, maybe you could of moved the actors away from the door.. but if the position of the actors was so critical that they had to be in front of the open space, than that's where white balance comes in, so important. But I always try to avoid day light when shooting indoors, unless it can't be avoided, then that's where some nice gels come in to play..
But, don't pay me no mind, I'm an amateur, but I'm learning a lot from a friend of mine who is a cinematographer, and of course u should know this, if u have bad lighting, then you have a bad movie, unless in some cases, bad lighting is intentional
But, don't pay me no mind, I'm an amateur, but I'm learning a lot from a friend of mine who is a cinematographer, and of course u should know this, if u have bad lighting, then you have a bad movie, unless in some cases, bad lighting is intentional
Fortunately -- and I hope you don't mind I took the liberty (if you did, let me know and I'll remove the post) -- being in such contrast to the rest of the picture makes those areas somewhat salvageable:
However, if you're dealing with windows at all, not only is color temperature an issue, but you need also to mind the possiblity of blowouts. You can gel the window with CTO gel, which will help with color temp and also darken it, but it's often easier to light the interior to match.
However, if you're dealing with windows at all, not only is color temperature an issue, but you need also to mind the possiblity of blowouts. You can gel the window with CTO gel, which will help with color temp and also darken it, but it's often easier to light the interior to match.
Chris Messineo
Veteran
David,
That was awesome. You should charge for lessons like that.
Chris
That was awesome. You should charge for lessons like that.
Chris
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
Good job David. What did you do to isolate the back grounds? Did you do that in PhotoShop or in an NLE? I do not see any evidence of masking. Very cool.
jamestmather
Well-known member
I'm inclined to disagree with the over-rulebook remove-the-blue dialogue. At least the opening two frames have a bit of colour contrast and removing it can make the image a little inflexible and boring. Look at Farewell My Concubine (nominated for best cinematography Oscar) or Caleb Deschanel's photography on The Patriot (also nominated for cinematography) for interesting colour temperature mixing. If the world outside is an unfriendly and alienating place then it works for the story. It's all context and taste...but mostly what you like. There are no rules...only reasons.
BTW CTO gel on windows tends to buckle, give a double reflection and rattle in the wind. There are rigid gel sheets but they tend to be prohibitively expensive and scratch easily. If colour balancing everything in your shot is your thing then I recommend HMI lights (which are the same Kelvin as daylight) or CTB gel on your indoor lighting (although you'll lose a couple of stops, which on tungsten is a lot). One other thing you could do is put half CTB gel on the tungsten lights and only lose half the light and then outside would only be a little steely on the film.
Similarly blowout is a technical distinction which means too hot on film. That said Robert Richardson chucked out the "Blowout rulebook" when he shot Oscar nominated JFK - frequently lighting actors six or seven stops over and shooting through Mitchell diffusion which made everything glow. For the next few films he made a career out of blowout.
I am inclined to think that the headroom in the opening frame is too tight and in the lower frame a bit loose. Unmatched headroom in varying shots tends to make things look amateur I think. But thats just me. Again if one of your characters is unbalanced or weak then it can create that sense.
One thing I will say about the images is that it looks like your film has conflict in it (which pretty much equals story) which is mostly what makes an audience sit there - so you've already got a head start.
Good luck with it.
BTW CTO gel on windows tends to buckle, give a double reflection and rattle in the wind. There are rigid gel sheets but they tend to be prohibitively expensive and scratch easily. If colour balancing everything in your shot is your thing then I recommend HMI lights (which are the same Kelvin as daylight) or CTB gel on your indoor lighting (although you'll lose a couple of stops, which on tungsten is a lot). One other thing you could do is put half CTB gel on the tungsten lights and only lose half the light and then outside would only be a little steely on the film.
Similarly blowout is a technical distinction which means too hot on film. That said Robert Richardson chucked out the "Blowout rulebook" when he shot Oscar nominated JFK - frequently lighting actors six or seven stops over and shooting through Mitchell diffusion which made everything glow. For the next few films he made a career out of blowout.
I am inclined to think that the headroom in the opening frame is too tight and in the lower frame a bit loose. Unmatched headroom in varying shots tends to make things look amateur I think. But thats just me. Again if one of your characters is unbalanced or weak then it can create that sense.
One thing I will say about the images is that it looks like your film has conflict in it (which pretty much equals story) which is mostly what makes an audience sit there - so you've already got a head start.
Good luck with it.
Jeez, guys, thanks. All I did was use secondary color correction to isolate the blue-cyan colors and desaturate them a little, as well as rotate the hue toward orange.
James, you're right, of course, but I'm sure you'd agree that you need a good grounding in the rules before you set to break them?
James, you're right, of course, but I'm sure you'd agree that you need a good grounding in the rules before you set to break them?
Yeah, I was going to say that no one who's had experience with firearms would ever hold a gun that way, but I didn't want to get into content . . .
Cool thanks for the input all.
Some background... I did white balance for the more orange areas to create a contrast when moving though a minimal action room or an exterior. That said I agree that the first one probably could be brought up a bit as running through the clip I can see it takes a little away from the action. I have kept the lense fairly open as it gave me the best result for the look I wanted.. after test shooting for almost two months to get the feel for this short I wanted.
I am interpreting when captured and also checking to ensure the capture frame settings are 16:9 (1.2) although premiere isnt liking me and outputs at 720x480l. Anyway Ill sort that out when I get some time.
OK now on the Beretta, I guess the grip would depend on if he actually has intent to fire at that point in time, or take a more threatening pose by placing himself and the gun close to the other party. The opening to this scene starts with my gun toting actor entering this apartment without full knowing what lay inside. He wields the pistol with a straight arm with wrist and shoulder aligned. Just like I was taught in the Army.
Anyway, moving on any issues with focus?
Some background... I did white balance for the more orange areas to create a contrast when moving though a minimal action room or an exterior. That said I agree that the first one probably could be brought up a bit as running through the clip I can see it takes a little away from the action. I have kept the lense fairly open as it gave me the best result for the look I wanted.. after test shooting for almost two months to get the feel for this short I wanted.
I am interpreting when captured and also checking to ensure the capture frame settings are 16:9 (1.2) although premiere isnt liking me and outputs at 720x480l. Anyway Ill sort that out when I get some time.
OK now on the Beretta, I guess the grip would depend on if he actually has intent to fire at that point in time, or take a more threatening pose by placing himself and the gun close to the other party. The opening to this scene starts with my gun toting actor entering this apartment without full knowing what lay inside. He wields the pistol with a straight arm with wrist and shoulder aligned. Just like I was taught in the Army.
Anyway, moving on any issues with focus?
I don't really see any focus issues; maybe a little motion blur, but I assumed it was just that.
What's your detail setting? Thin? Looks like there's some stairstep artifacting in your diagonals in the first grab. Thin is good for filmout, but mid or thick is better if you intend to view on a TV or a computer screen.
What's your detail setting? Thin? Looks like there's some stairstep artifacting in your diagonals in the first grab. Thin is good for filmout, but mid or thick is better if you intend to view on a TV or a computer screen.
Thanks David. Appreciate your advice.. first time to shoot a short with a DVX, so any input greatly appreicated always. David also I appreciate your a little flat comment.. I guess to some extent I have overlit due in part to some anxiety over underlighting... here in Japan I dont have my light kit from Aus and these locations are very very small spaces. So even minimal lighting blows all shadows out. I can barely move around my lights as it is. If at all possible could I pm you another image which I think may be hard to fix?
CELLULOID: A quick-render film looks tool for Vegas.... coming to premiere soon?
CELLULOID: A quick-render film looks tool for Vegas.... coming to premiere soon?
Ralph Oshiro
Veteran
Well, I LIKE the girl! Besides the color temp difference between the daylight and the quartz lights inside, the main thing that bothered me about the lighting was that I knew it was coming from an unnatural, artificial source. Anyway, for narrative dramatic stuff, I tend to be a fan of "motivated" lighting. Now, we all cheat stuff all the time when shooting, but the idea of a motivated light source is simply another tool that really helps to sell your dramatic effect. Or at least, not to detract from it.
A quick definition of motivated lighting is lighting that comes from a plausible source that's depicted (or suggested) in your scene. A lamp. A window. Light reflected off of a shiny kitchen floor from "morning sunlight" streaming through a window. Motivated light is typically created artificially. Often, it's very hard (or expensive) to do sometimes. "Morning light" is nicely done with a narrow-beamed Xenon, gelled warm, standing several dozen feet away from your "window." Another example of motivated lighting would be to use an orange-gelled movie light to key your actor to simulate a fire (which is seen in the reverse angle).
A quick definition of motivated lighting is lighting that comes from a plausible source that's depicted (or suggested) in your scene. A lamp. A window. Light reflected off of a shiny kitchen floor from "morning sunlight" streaming through a window. Motivated light is typically created artificially. Often, it's very hard (or expensive) to do sometimes. "Morning light" is nicely done with a narrow-beamed Xenon, gelled warm, standing several dozen feet away from your "window." Another example of motivated lighting would be to use an orange-gelled movie light to key your actor to simulate a fire (which is seen in the reverse angle).
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
kai said:The guy's grip on the Beretta is unrealistic. He'd snap his wrist and end up jamming a cartridge in the receiver on ejection from the recoil.
Just my realistic 2 cents
Hey Kyle... picked up a Glock 19 last week.
ncje said:
Sure.
No plans to do so, but you never know.
KingVidiot
Well-known member
kai said:The guy's grip on the Beretta is unrealistic. He'd snap his wrist and end up jamming a cartridge in the receiver on ejection from the recoil.
Just my realistic 2 cents
Snap his wrist? Hell, with a grip like that the gun will most likely fly out of his hand or at least smack him in the head. I guess it depends on the load...
Nice corrections David. Damn, I really need to learn this stuff.
It's amazing (well, not really) how improper lighting of a shot can make it look worse than no lighting at all. In this scene, the lights give themselves away and make it look fake, until corrected of course.
Additionally I have used everything from a Walther to a Steyr. I am fairly keyed in on how to use a firearm. How many movies do you see people using automatic and semi automatic rifles with thier head cocked over the butt/barrel ... some with one eye closed? That is completely inaccurate. When using a semi auto or full auto rifle you place your head square over it and look cleanly forward with both eyes. Unless your using a scope.
The colour mix was completely deliberate. I will repost the images when I have finished my final edit.... see what ends up on the scrapheap and what doesnt. As I said maybe the first one detracts a little .. however its in the scene such a short time in the end I may cc without bringing it up too much at all. Ill have to se what works and what doesnt. The second one was shot on an overcast day so most of the exterior light is artificial.
Thanks for your thoughts!