What do I need? I want a 'lighter'

D

DoubleIt

Well-known member
My weakest point in film making is lighting. I know how i want it to look but dont know how to make it (I.E. I wouldnt know to tell the gaffer to get 2 kinos, a softbox and a 6k) I dont want a DP, i want to take care of that (as well as direction) but I do want a camera op and an AC. What exactly should I do? This is for a feature by the way. Hopefully someone understands what I mean. Would a good gaffer be able to do this?
 
D.P. is lighting. The Gaffer has a strong hand in it but one of the main points of a D.P. is the lighting. Sounds like you want the gaffer to do the most of the work of a DP. As a director you can discuss a shot with the DP and what you want the finished look to be like.
 
waitaminute I thought the DP and cinematographer were one and the same and the lighting guy was, well, the lighting guy.

-Edalgo
 
The DP is the Cinematographer, who is also responsible for the lighting. The grips do the physical work though.
 
i would suggest getting to one of walter graff's seminars on lighting.

he typically holds them in NYC and he also has a monthly newsletter but the in person seminar really helped me learn about lighting.

matthew
 
I dont want a DP, i want to take care of that
Click to expand...

Why would you want to do something you don't know how? Why don't you want a DP? Because you are afraid it's not going to end up looking the way you want? If you are the director, it's your responsability as it to ensure things are going to end the way you want them. That means you will have to lead a crew of thinking and capable people, as long as assistants, that will have to be workning FOR your film.

That is almost like saying you don't want a producer, or an actor. Maybe you want to do things like Vincent Gallo, and have them turn out just like "Brown Bunny" - I guess somebody like that load of crap... - But honestly, if you want your feature to turn out any good you better have a capable crew. If you are really aggaist leaving the creative job to other, less capable minds, I suggest you take some of your time and study.

There are some DPs there are much less technical in relation to lighting, and they do leave the gaffers with most of the lighting decisions. What I think about that is that they should pay double the gaffers for they much augmented responsbilities and work, and most of the times, the gaffers walk all around them, but sure enough, many gaffers are capable of being in charge of the actual lighting. I think if you want a gaffer like this and no DP, basically, you are already hiring a DP, so pay the guy and credit accordingly instead.

Whatever you decide, make sure the gaffer or DP understands you have your mind made up, and make sure you know how to express yourself in order for it to work. Doing guesswork for unexperienced, egomaniacs with a "vision" can be a frustrating experience (not meaning you are one of those, but still, you could turn one to his eyes after some time), and you have to maintain a workable set. You could do tests and lock on a look beforehand, you could use references, etc...

Most of the times tough, when a director wants something really different and with a deep meaning that he spend hours trying to describe (I want it to look like they are helpless in their own realm of dispair)..., they just want something really easy and simple like crushed black backgrounds, hard lighting, strong backlight and high contrast. It's up to the DP to make the director feel he never done that before...
 
I'm in the reverse situation. I totally understand the desire to keep certian creative aspects your responsibility. I think that what Doubleit is expressing is that He (She?) wants to direct, AND decide shots, composition, look, feel, color lighting, framing etc. But needs someone to wrangle the lights and deliver the right environment in which to shoot.
I have learned that in most cases I am not the director I wish I was. I suppose I can keep plugging along making pictures, doing the directing and the camera work and designing the lighting setups. And I probably will, because how else will I become a better director? But honestly, I'm overworked. At some point my directing suffers because I have too much on my plate, and my cinematography isn't what it should be because I spend at least some time dealing with directing. I'm starting to do some DP-only work because that's where my strength lies, maybe along the way I get to work behind some better Directors and learn from them. As you move from truly NO budget indie productions to some-budget indie productions you have to begin to release some control that you once had over the picture. You will work less and less on YOUR movie, and more and more on OUR movie. It is the way it must be done if you are going to continue to advance your craft. Diversity is one of the strengths that makes moviemaking such an amazing collaborative experience.
 
FWIW I'm with Taubkin. If you're directing, get competent people whose skills and aesthetics you trust, to make the things happen which you are not as skilled at doing, as they are. There's no particular honor in "I did every last thing myself," if delegating and managing the contributions of a number of skilled people will get you better results - and that delegating/managing is a big part of what directing is all about, at least, where I work.

If your goal is the pride and learning experience that can come from completing a "one man band" production, then doing it all yourself might make sense. If the goal is to get the best possible product, with the least possible amount of driving yourself nuts, then a crew who can implement what you ask for, and offer positive contributions you like, is really the way to go.

Free advice, guaranteed to be worth every penny you paid for it.
 
DoubleIt, filmmaking is a collaborative, but I understand your point of view. Getting and trusting a DP is part of the process. The DP then have to hire a good gaffer and grips. On the other hand, if money is a problem, an experience gaffer can get the job done with you as the Director/DP providing input of the look you desire. One solution is to record scenes from other movies that exemplify the kind of mood lighting you desire. I've been on a set where the Director told the DP "I want the Godfather look" and he had clips which he played of certain scenes from the Godfather or I want the English Patient look with scenes from that movie as well. The DP then have an idea of how the scene should be lit. Of course most of this is done in pre-production but I've also seen on-set improvision in lighting. Changing a lighting set up on a set is time consuming and I would say only to do it if everything else fails or the environment calls for it. Working with a good DP and gaffer is a good thing because of the relationships that will develop (providing they do a good job). So if you have the budget, I would say go for the DP, Gaffer and Grip, but if your budget is limited then atleast get the gaffer and grip. Do not put inexperience production assistants to assist in lighting set up. The last thing you want is someone frying on the set.
 
Several video productions have the camera operator/crew working separatedly with the lighting director, that handles lighting and grip under his command. He doesn't even see through the camera. The only issue that I think is very important to consider, is giving your gaffer credit, and calling HIM the DP, or LD, or whatever, but not gaffer, since there won't be a DP and you clearly won't do as a substitute (if I understood you correctly)

But honestly, from personal experience, i'd let it go, get someone that knows what he's doing, make sure he is with the directors concept and let him work. I am feeling you will get very frustrated otherwise.
 
I will say this. It is very difficult to obtain quality workmanship from more qualified collaborators when you are the one giving the orders. Think about it. How could they take their 'boss' seriously if they are more experienced themselves? This makes for a very difficult, if not stressful work environment. And, considering they would only be doing this work for the pay (not to build their 'reel'...), don't expect anything remarkable from them. If you say jump, they will jump, but like you've said, you're unsure of when to tell them to jump. Whether you want to call him this or not, you are absolutely looking for a director of photography. I mean, that's what a D.P. does! They light things! Finding a good one is hard.
 
As far as I am concerned... saying you don't know what youring doing with lights then saying you don't want a DP is nuts...

A DP does not decide the composition, the framing, the mood etc...

The Director decides all of these things.. and then works with the DP and the rest of his crew to achieve this.

There is a reason film is a collaborative medium... directing a film is hard enough... if you add onto that the work of a DOP... you'll be comprimising on the time you spend with your actors..

learn to work with other people... you don't have to give up creative control... but who knows.. other people may have better ideas than you.. use them..
 
Yeah, if you're not designing the lighting or even operating the camera--then by definition, you're not a DP. You'll be a much happier camper if you find a good DP and let them do their job while you concentrate on working with the actors and dealing with the myriad of problems and issues that come up during the production.
 
If this is for a feature, get a D.P.--ESPECIALLY if you are planning to bump this thing over to film!! Lighting for DV and Lighting for DV to Film are different worlds and you really need someone that knows the ins-and-outs of that. Plus, as others have mentioned, you'll drive yourself into an early grave trying to do everything yourself!

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com
 
Thanks for the interseting read guys. I guess I am just too used to my no budget productions where I have to do everything. It is mostly composition/angle/look that I want to control. I am so used to having the camera in my hands so that will be hard to let go off... and then finding someone i trust to be DP. I will not be filming until next August though so I have time to figure it all out. Thanks guys...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top