What are the kids shooting on these days?

M

Mike H.

Member
Hi, this is my first post on here. I've been a casual lurker for years, but I finally have a question.
My background is in television. I started out as an editor, and then had the opportunity to transition into camera operator. Over the years I've shot TV with these cameras: PD150, BetacamSP, DVX100, Panasonic SDX900.
Here's the thing, I took a couple of years off video to travel the world, and now that I'm back it seems the game has changed a bit.

First, it seems like all the new cameras are tapeless solid state which is cool, but I know producers and they like tape because they can hold it in their hand and hide it somewhere safe. I'm not sure if I could get much work without having a tape to hand off at the end of the day. Is there a quick, solid workflow for tapeless video that works for everyone?

Second, if I were to invest in a prosumer camera for professional freelance work, which is the one to get? Or, am I better off investing in lights, support, ect. and let the client supply the camera?

Thanks !!
Mike.
 
Welcome back!

Why not get something like an HVX200 that has the best of both worlds? Tape and solid state! There are lots of good deals on used HVX kits on these boards...

Workflows vary a little depending on the camera, recording media, and your NLE. I'd say the HVX has an easy to learn workflow, there are lots of tutorials and info on that elsewhere, just do a search.

It couldn't hurt to get lights and grip equipment, but personally, I'd start with the camera unless you're trying to get specific work as a gaffer/lighting guy. If anything you'll rent gear and bill the client.
 
Mike H. said:
Hi, this is my first post on here. I've been a casual lurker for years, but I finally have a question.
My background is in television. I started out as an editor, and then had the opportunity to transition into camera operator. Over the years I've shot TV with these cameras: PD150, BetacamSP, DVX100, Panasonic SDX900.
Here's the thing, I took a couple of years off video to travel the world, and now that I'm back it seems the game has changed a bit.

First, it seems like all the new cameras are tapeless solid state which is cool, but I know producers and they like tape because they can hold it in their hand and hide it somewhere safe. I'm not sure if I could get much work without having a tape to hand off at the end of the day. Is there a quick, solid workflow for tapeless video that works for everyone?

Second, if I were to invest in a prosumer camera for professional freelance work, which is the one to get? Or, am I better off investing in lights, support, ect. and let the client supply the camera?

Thanks !!
Mike.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the boards!

What cam you get is based on your budget and needs.

You're asking if you should buy a camera if you're doing professional freelance work -- I think, yeah you probably should. Not sure what you mean by "freelance work" exactly. Some guys here are shooting stuff for the Discovery Channel, some are DPing shorts or features, some are shooting weddings. If you're doing anything in the society of any of these things, you should probably own your own camera (or work with someone who owns a camera).

Solid state, IMO, is everything and is the future, but it doesn't really mean anything in regards to paying jobs. No one is going to care if you use tape or solid state, especially if you're doing the editing. If you shoot a wedding and someone wants all of the additional footage, you can easily burn them a DVD, etc. Solid state is awesome because there's no devaluing it regardless of how many times you use it. But you need to back up, back up, back up. Those little SDHC cards (or SXS cards or P2 cards) are expensive, so you'll need somewhere to store your data.

As to what camera you should buy? Sheesh, there's about a million opinions on that, but again it's all about budget. Staying in the prosumer arena, the absolute best (and the ceiling for my response) is the EX line (either an EX1 or EX3, depending on what you want in the way of ergonomics and lens interchangeability vs budgetary constraints).

A few people might argue this, but not many. The EX line is being used in Hollywood productions and it's rated highest by pretty much every video mag ever written (in it's price range.

After that the debate gets thicker still, but I'll point you towards the HMC line, HMC150 and HMC40. Big bang for your buck.

In the vicinity, though, and the true workhorses of this thread are the HVX200 and the DVX100 lines. You can get full packages (sometimes with DOF adapters) for really, really resonable prices.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention DSLRs in this as well. You can do unlimited research on them, but at last count the front runners were the GH1 (affordablity), Mark 5DII (best low light and picture), Nikon D90 (probably the most affordable right now but with the least features), and the Canon 7D. There's lots more coming down the pipeline, but these are the DSLRs most people are using here. Just remember if you're going the DSLR route (or, ESPECIALLY if you go the DSLR route though this does apply to pretty much every camera listed), you're going to need a separate audio recorder, and for that you may as well go solid state.

Top to bottom for low budget audio recorders:

Edirol R-44
Fostex FR-2LE
Zoom H4N
PCM-D50

If you decide to get a mixer, the Mixpre is pretty standard, and in that case you can just pick up Zoom's H4 and use it's line-in (which will bypass the Zoom's preamps). For mics the NTG-3 is a great buy.

There are LOTS of cameras that I didn't list (and an equal number of recorders and microphones, more expensive and cheaper still). Some other cams that people like are the Z1U, VX1000, etc.

Last, if you're wanting to completely get out of the 4 figure market, then you can drop down to Canon's line of consumer camcorders: HV30/40, HFS100, HF200. Panasonic's HS100 has a focus ring, I think. Never talked to anyone who has worked with one but it won best harddrive camcorder in VM last year and uses 3MOS.

With any of the consumer grade stuff, though, you need to make sure that you can really flood these puppies with light. Especially if you're doing anything narrative (which you might not be). But don't be fooled by the "consumer" label. These cameras are really powerful, and in some cases can stand up (picture-wise, not feature-wise) to even the EX line.

So there ya go! Just a start into the endless process of researching different cameras and equipment. Some folks here can give you lots of graphs and charts if that will help you, but for the most part if a camera here has a thread of its own, it's probably worth taking a look at.

Good luck!

And whatever you do, don't wait for a Scarlet. ;)
 
Just my opinion, 1080p hdtvs are getting very cheap now, more and more people are owning them. I think if you shoot something and want to at least stay with the current times, trying to shoot 1080p or better would be ideal. It just depends on what you're using it for though and how smart your clients are to know the difference. With blu-ray media discs getting cheaper, blu-ray players getting cheaper, the rental of blu-rays increasing online and in stores, many people want 1080p hd blu-rays. It's becoming a marketing tool on blu-rays, flip the back and many say 1080p.
 
I've heard mixed opinions on the HVX200. Not sure really. There's so many cameras now and it seems like they all have their little flaws.
In my experience a TV series production will have their own cameras which is why having supplemental gear like lights and jibs, ect. can make you more attractive to hire. But, if I were to look for freelance work it would be Corporate, Wedding, or Documentary.
The EX1 sounds like the way to go, but again, the tapeless thing is a pain. Most producers want their investment protected and archived, and while tape isn't perfect it's a lot more secure than hard drives. I know you can burn dvds, but that's time consuming. I want a way to just hand it over at the end of the day and say goodbye. But, maybe those days are over ;)

I've been reading about the new HDSLRs but I couldn't get much work with those. They aren't designed for videography. I'd definitely get one for my small scale film projects though. I love the DOF they have.

If I can reach a little father than the EX1 I could get a Panasonic HPX500. I have a feeling that would pay the bills for awhile :) Anyone here have any experience with this one?

There has been a lot of talk about the Scarlet and it's funny you say not to bother waiting. After all this hype it can only disappoint.

Thanks for the feedback. This forum is great.
 
Mike H. said:
I've heard mixed opinions on the HVX200. Not sure really. There's so many cameras now and it seems like they all have their little flaws.
In my experience a TV series production will have their own cameras which is why having supplemental gear like lights and jibs, ect. can make you more attractive to hire. But, if I were to look for freelance work it would be Corporate, Wedding, or Documentary.
The EX1 sounds like the way to go, but again, the tapeless thing is a pain. Most producers want their investment protected and archived, and while tape isn't perfect it's a lot more secure than hard drives. I know you can burn dvds, but that's time consuming. I want a way to just hand it over at the end of the day and say goodbye. But, maybe those days are over ;)

I've been reading about the new HDSLRs but I couldn't get much work with those. They aren't designed for videography. I'd definitely get one for my small scale film projects though. I love the DOF they have.

If I can reach a little father than the EX1 I could get a Panasonic HPX500. I have a feeling that would pay the bills for awhile :) Anyone here have any experience with this one?

There has been a lot of talk about the Scarlet and it's funny you say not to bother waiting. After all this hype it can only disappoint.

Thanks for the feedback. This forum is great.
Click to expand...

yeah, if you can I'd get the hpx500. or wait for the scarlet. I think it'd be hard to get anything less than a 2/3" sensor nowadays. I think all the news stations use 2/3" XDCAMs for ENG, and most all digital cinema cameras are at least 2/3" (viper, si-2k, f23).
 
killacam said:
yeah, if you can I'd get the hpx500. or wait for the scarlet. I think it'd be hard to get anything less than a 2/3" sensor nowadays. I think all the news stations use 2/3" XDCAMs for ENG, and most all digital cinema cameras are at least 2/3" (viper, si-2k, f23).
Click to expand...

That makes sense to go with 2/3". They're a lot cheaper than they used to be.

hoarp001 said:
Get a Sony Z7. That does tape and solid state. Its a great camera.
Click to expand...

I forgot about HDV. There's just too many formats. What a headache :(
 
People are quick to dismiss HDV, but its still a good format. Dont forget, a lot of what you see on TV (especially in europe) was shot on Z1s which is all HDV. It records on tape and card, and you can do two formats at once, HDV, DV or DVCAM. Its great in low light, and it has extra features like slow motion. It also has an interchangable lens mount which is very useful.

I find the image from the z7 to be very good, and the compression is minimal. Because of the lens mount and the tape drive, the z7 is used a lot in wild life film making, usualy with a big long broadcast lens. No one wants to run out of memory cards in the jungle then setup a DIT staion on an elephant turd and start shuffling files. Tapes are still the most convinient way of shooting some stuff, especialy when you have hours of action to cover (live events, weddings etc) without having to have loads of costly memory cards. You can also keep the tape afterwards as a perminant archive.

For situations where solid state workflow is better, then just turn the tape drive off and use the memory recorder that comes with the z7.

Its a great camera, and I feel it is very overlooked.

Seriously, you should consider it if you are looking at a small hand held camera.
 
hoarp001 said:
People are quick to dismiss HDV, but its still a good format. Dont forget, a lot of what you see on TV (especially in europe) was shot on Z1s which is all HDV. It records on tape and card, and you can do two formats at once, HDV, DV or DVCAM. Its great in low light, and it has extra features like slow motion. It also has an interchangable lens mount which is very useful.

I find the image from the z7 to be very good, and the compression is minimal. Because of the lens mount and the tape drive, the z7 is used a lot in wild life film making, usualy with a big long broadcast lens. No one wants to run out of memory cards in the jungle then setup a DIT staion on an elephant turd and start shuffling files. Tapes are still the most convinient way of shooting some stuff, especialy when you have hours of action to cover (live events, weddings etc) without having to have loads of costly memory cards. You can also keep the tape afterwards as a perminant archive.

For situations where solid state workflow is better, then just turn the tape drive off and use the memory recorder that comes with the z7.

Its a great camera, and I feel it is very overlooked.

Seriously, you should consider it if you are looking at a small hand held camera.
Click to expand...

throw in a hofo and I'm sure he'd agree!
 
the ex1 or the ex3. they're the best prosumer cams right now in my opinion.

the only issues are they can't shoot flashes coz they're cmos. so if you do weddings etc then it could be an issue... other then that they have the sharpest picture. a decent codec. decent in lowlight. and super cheap nock off cards are available so you can shoot for hours.
 
The rolling shutter thing is an issue, we recently shot a music video on RED that featured a pack of paperazzos, and the constant flashing produced the rolling shutter effect, and actually - I quite liked it. It made everything look hectic, which is just what we wanted.


Probably not suitable for a wedding though.
 
hoarp001 said:
The rolling shutter thing is an issue, we recently shot a music video on RED that featured a pack of paperazzos, and the constant flashing produced the rolling shutter effect, and actually - I quite liked it. It made everything look hectic, which is just what we wanted.


Probably not suitable for a wedding though.
Click to expand...

This is what really scares me about possibly switching to a tapeless camera later this year. Right now I use a Canon A1 which is CCD. I would like to stick with Canon or go back to Panasonic, which would mean probably an HMC150. I'm betting that if Canon replaces the XH-A1 with an A2, then it will most likely be a CMOS based system.
 
hoarp001 said:
People are quick to dismiss HDV, but its still a good format. Dont forget, a lot of what you see on TV (especially in europe) was shot on Z1s which is all HDV. It records on tape and card, and you can do two formats at once, HDV, DV or DVCAM. Its great in low light, and it has extra features like slow motion. It also has an interchangable lens mount which is very useful.

I find the image from the z7 to be very good, and the compression is minimal. Because of the lens mount and the tape drive, the z7 is used a lot in wild life film making, usualy with a big long broadcast lens. No one wants to run out of memory cards in the jungle then setup a DIT staion on an elephant turd and start shuffling files. Tapes are still the most convinient way of shooting some stuff, especialy when you have hours of action to cover (live events, weddings etc) without having to have loads of costly memory cards. You can also keep the tape afterwards as a perminant archive.

For situations where solid state workflow is better, then just turn the tape drive off and use the memory recorder that comes with the z7.

Its a great camera, and I feel it is very overlooked.

Seriously, you should consider it if you are looking at a small hand held camera.
Click to expand...

I thought HDV was on the outski, but maybe not. I'll try one out.
The thing that's getting me down about all these cameras is there's too much variety. I really envy the film guys in that respect. Their cameras have hardly changed in a hundred years. If you bought a film camera in the 60's it still works today just the same. When will they make a video camera like that?
:badputer:
 
Mike Harvey said:
Most are shooting P2 cams.
Click to expand...

well I shouldn't have generalized as I don't know that much about ENG/EFP and I don't know what they shoot on in Washington or the rest of the world, but I only said that because it seems like in New York at least that they all shoot on XDCAMs for remote location shots. I don't work in news or anything so this is all anecdoctal but this is kind of a funny story- I was at the Brooklyn Bridge to do a timelapse and I saw all the news vans there. They were between shots and I was always curious about what they shoot tv news on so I went to check it out. I kind of bugged the camera man about it ha. He was pretty cool and I asked him about it and showed him my DSLR. He said his friend had showed him a Canon DSLR that shot video (he wasn't sure which model) but he knew about the time limits on SSDs or flash drives so that's why they still shoot on tape- he said in the future they'd probably be shooting on disk. Anyway, yeah he was shooting on an XDCAM- after seeing it was a Sony I actually asked him if it was an EX ha but it was a much higher end model and he said it was 2/3", although a couple of years old already he said. Afterward I walked around and saw all the other vans were using XDCAMs as well. I started to notice it more after that; in this video for example, the only clear shot of what they're using seems to be a Sony: http://vimeo.com/7313433. That doesn't mean they use them everywhere though yeah. I have no preference for Panasonic vs. Sony or anything. Honestly I think he should just wait for a Scarlet (which won't have tape though).
 
Mike H. said:
I thought HDV was on the outski, but maybe not. I'll try one out.
The thing that's getting me down about all these cameras is there's too much variety. I really envy the film guys in that respect. Their cameras have hardly changed in a hundred years. If you bought a film camera in the 60's it still works today just the same. When will they make a video camera like that?
:badputer:
Click to expand...

When technology stops progressing. Theres not much to a film camera, its mechanical and the mechanisms don't change. New technology is being developed all the time, and all the major companies are constantly trying to one-up each other.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top