Western versus Asian camera design

roxics

Veteran
I think there is a cultural difference between the asian companies that make most of the cameras we have and the western companies. Most of our lower end gear comes from asian companies like Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Nikon, Samsung, Olympus, etc. When you look at Western camera design like ARRI, Panavision, RED, Aaton, Grass Valley, Thomson, Silicon Imaging, Vision Research, Digital Bolex and Blackmagic Design you get a different set of priorities. We have very few lower end western designed cameras. I'm talking digital video here, I'm not going back to the heydey of western film cameras.


The asian manufactures seem obessed with compressed codecs even into the pro space where they are coming up with ever newer professional compressed formats. The western cameras seem to be pushing further toward raw and/or standards like ProRes.


I want to know why it is that western companies have taken so long to push into the consumer space and why it is that asian companies cannot seem to get on board with western philosophy on camera design/codec choice? Is it really just a cultural difference or is there a price factor involved? Could it be a language barrier and the fact that higher ups at asian companies just can't or don't typically read English forums like these where we express our desires and reasons why?


I'm glad to see both Blackmagic Design and Digital Bolex moving into a more consumer friendly space since most western camera companies have found a niche in the top end of the market. But as of right now only Blackmagic Design has the capabilities to compete with multiple models and they are still heavily overshadowed by the asian giants that sell a lot more units and can sell something like a DSLR with flip out screen and large sensor for $800.


My hope is that one day Blackmagic or any one of the other western companies can work their way down to something like this without taking forever to do things like putting a headphone jack on or a ProRes codec as a record option on an $800 camera. I'm not discounting the BMPCC here as it's already in this price range and a fine camera, but it isn't as fleshed out as say a GH3. If the GH3 had Raw/ProRes and a 13 stop sensor most of us would probably overlook the BMPCC. But I like were they are going, I just think it's still a work in progress froma company that is new to making cameras.
 
This is an incredibly generalized set of suppositions. Could it be that the Asian companies you mention sell huge volumes of cameras, and for them the client base is in compressed recordings?
 
You're right. They certainly do sell a lot of cameras and there is definitely a place for compressed recording. I realize I am being general here. I don't know how else to word it. This is just sort of a thought I had and wanted to open up some kind of discussion based on it. I could be completely wrong about it all so I'm interested in others thoughs.
 
The asian manufactures seem obessed with compressed codecs even into the pro space where they are coming up with ever newer professional compressed formats. The western cameras seem to be pushing further toward raw and/or standards like ProRes.

.... etc...

The 'biggest' difference and this has been happening since before WWII, is that Japan has made manufacturing in large quantities a priority.

In regard to cameras, most early post war japanese cameras were made based on 'west' or 'european' models. The japanese made them mass manufacturable.

Here's a blurb on the development of the 'digital camera', the Kodak (note that this is a leading US company in the camera world... well... was...)...

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In 1975 Kodak engineer Steven Sasson invented the first digital still camera, which used a Fairchild 100 x 100 pixel CCD.[1][2] By 1986 Kodak had developed a sensor with 1.4 million pixels.[3]

A number of other inventions were made to increase usability, including improvements in sensor technology, the first Raw image format DCR, and usable host software. The original Kodak DCS was launched in 1991, and was based around a stock Nikon F3 SLR with digital components. It used a 1.3-megapixel Kodak KAF-1300 sensor, and a separate shoulder-mounted processing and storage unit.
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Why did 'kodak' lose out... because rather than look to making the camera a mass market item, Kodak thought they could hold on to 'patents' and derive revenue from such... which of course was proved hopelessly wrong in the recent sale of the now bankrupt company... the 'patents' didn't garner as much as thought to 'save' the company.

The cameras you refer to, ARRI et al. are really 'specialty' companies, and will not compete in the consumer market, as the consumer market is driven by 'cost' almost exclusively, to the point were if a camera A costs X, and there is little 'consumer' perceived difference between camera B and A, with camera B costing less than X... camera B will win.

The 'story' of the Panasonic Lumix GH-1/2/3 is somewhat instructive... the camera was designed and targeted for the consumer market. Panasonic 'pro' didn't have the line, didn't talk about the line, etc. Some hackers found that the camera could be 'improved' on a number of issues, albeit with a 'cost', such as requiring higher speed SD devices, or the like...

Clearly the target consumer market that the camera was designed for was also taking into account the 'cheaper' memory that has a lower bit rate, or better reliability across widely varying temperatures.

Consumers don't want to be told to buy higher priced accessories, or be told not to use their camera in 'cold' or 'hot'... such as 40 deg F, or 100 deg F....

A pro camera may require some sort of 'conditioning' or additional hardware to allow for operations under such conditions, and is taken into account by the production.

Early Red experience of pro users often had reports of the camera reseting, locking up, or whatever, and requiring a Digital Imaging Tech (now standard on file crews...) to handle the situation...

Tell a consumer they have to have a DIT person on site when they are snapping happy shots... no it would never come up...
 
This has been a quite common lament for about twenty years: "Isn't it a shame that the only people who know how to build cameras don't know how to design them". As for cultural differences, look also at "American" vs "Japanese" cars.
 
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