Wedding DJ has no line out ... Help

Grisnjam

Grisnjam

Well-known member
I am working my first paid wedding in two weeks and I just talked to the DJ about sound amplification at the reception. He will be using a wired mic and simple mixer/amp which he claims has no line out.

So I would like some advice on how to best capture the toast audio.

Here is the gear I will have on hand for audio:

2x Panasonic GH2s
1x H4n Recorder
1x Rode VideoMic Pro
2x EK100 G3 Wireless Lavs

I plan to lock off one GH2 in the corner for a video time lapse/ b cam.

Here is what I have come up with so far for getting the cleanest audio:

1) Place the H4n in front of the DJ's speakers and use it's internal mic to record. Use the VideoMic Pro pointing at the speaker on the locked off GH2 for a backup and the internal mic on the main GH2 a another backup.
2) Use the VideoMic Pro as an input to the H4n and record it on one track and the internal mic as a second track. Just use the internal GH2 mics on both cameras as backups.
3) Try and attach a EK100 wirelss lav to the Dj's wired mic (??) and record on the H4n with either 1) or 2) above.
4) Wire up the bride and groom with the 2 wirelss lavs with either 1) or 2) above so at least I get them ...

I plan to use this wedding as my promo video so I want to get the best sound I can here.

Thoughts? Thanks!

Oh and I can rent other mics from here ifI need to:

http://www.rocknrollrentals.com/microphone.html
 
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What about a headphone/monitor output on the mixer, surely.. Turned down and fed into a G3 then any of the backups above - as an.. er.. backup!

Its best to have a clean "feed" if its possible... and would save a lot of trouble.
 
gbarnes said:
What about a headphone/monitor output on the mixer, surely.. Turned down and fed into a G3 then any of the backups above - as an.. er.. backup!

Its best to have a clean "feed" if its possible... and would save a lot of trouble.
Click to expand...

Yeah my hope is this guy does not really know and when I get there I will find a line or of some sort on his mixer ...
 
Its been my experience that many dj's don't know their own systems that well...not particularly technical, or they just don't want to bother...you'll know pretty quickly which camp they're in once you see the system.
 
wbrock001 said:
Its been my experience that many dj's don't know their own systems that well...not particularly technical, or they just don't want to bother...you'll know pretty quickly which camp they're in once you see the system.
Click to expand...

Right but I want a plan B when I find out he is using a Karaoke machine from 1995 with no line out ...

Would it be possible just to pass his wired mic thought the H4n before going into his mixer??
 
If you get a direct box you might be able to get a feed from the speaker.

Or as the other gentleman said from the headphone jack, either a splitter or a standalone headphone amp with multiPle outs.
 
i've come across this quite a few times and usually i'll stick a splitter on the headphone jack. i make sure he sets the headphone level where he wants it first and then go from there. usually works out pretty good.
 
I used to do a lot of wedding video work back in the day, and we'd always just stick a wireless mic on a stand in front of the speaker. Always got good results, and didn't have to worry about the DJ messing up connections, etc. or unplugging/changing our connection. Then we'd always have the second channel recording the on-camera mic, so we could blend the clean signal with the "room" signal.

But then again, back when I did this, HDSLRs didn't even exist, so conventions and expectations have probably changed.....
 
trickhog said:
I used to do a lot of wedding video work back in the day, and we'd always just stick a wireless mic on a stand in front of the speaker. Always got good results, and didn't have to worry about the DJ messing up connections, etc. or unplugging/changing our connection. Then we'd always have the second channel recording the on-camera mic, so we could blend the clean signal with the "room" signal.

But then again, back when I did this, HDSLRs didn't even exist, so conventions and expectations have probably changed.....
Click to expand...

Thats a good idea as a 3rd or forth backup, thanks.
 
manglerBMX said:
i've come across this quite a few times and usually i'll stick a splitter on the headphone jack. i make sure he sets the headphone level where he wants it first and then go from there. usually works out pretty good.
Click to expand...

Ok I am asking the DJ what mixer he is using ... Thanks,
 
I don't think that plugging the VideoMic Pro into the H4n and pointing it in the direction of a speaker is the best idea. The difference between the sound you get with that and the sound you get with the built-in mics would be negligible.

The VideoMic Pro would be better off used on the non-stationary camera. One thing you might try to do is use a little hot-shoe adapter that will allow you to pivot the VideoMic Pro so that it's pointing straight up at the ceiling, instead of pointing forward. One problem when using a shotgun while you rove around a reception floor is that the shotgun picks up really uneven audio. When the camera points toward the speakers the sound will be directed at the music, and then when you pan away the music level goes down. It's distracting. But if you can point the shotgun straight upward, it will be more even sounding.

Also, if you're walking around with one GH2 and you're worried that all of your back-up plans may be failing during a toast or a speech, just walk over to get as close as you can to the person who is speaking. Then you know you at least got a passable recording of their words on your non-stationary camera.
 
Has it occurred to you that there may be a line out, but he simply has had a bad time with video people before, and just isn't willing to allow it. Of course he has a phones output, but you can bet he rather plans on using it to cue music?

I've not seen a modern mixer that doesn't have a record out - but you need to be nice to him to be allowed to use it!

I'm afraid that I have even done this myself, when a video guy has turned up at my theatre venue, as the audience are actually walking in, and demanded a feed. Sod him! If he'd come early, I could have done it - but in my case, moving the kit off the top of the mixer dog box, and possibly disturbing my system with no chance to test it means it just isn;t going to happen.
 
the sound guys usaully fall into three categories and two of them are bad ... kind of like football and passing ....

one, they are helpful and knowledgeable ... when you get one of those every one has the chance of winning ... but you need to help them... you need to have several options for then to work with their and your system. I carried a bag of connectors, cables and pads. I even carried a small mixer of my own with mic and line inputs so i could adjust just about anything they gave me. after introducing my self i asked if he could give me a feed. if they said yes then i asked what would be best for him. then i made what he gave me work.

second is the unfriendly one. it may be because of several reasons, they as mentioned before have been burned by a "free loader" it may be because he is not confident, it may be because he sees you as competition, or any one of reasons valid or not .... Unless in their contract it is specified they have to provide you with a feed, you have to remember they are not there to serve you they are hired independent of you and if something goes wrong with the sound its their paycheck that might get canceled not yours thye have to take care of their job and service first ...

third is the incompetent one who may be friendly or unfriendly .... the worst are the friendly incompetent ones ... they give you a feed at first and you set up for it and when the time comes he his changes a setting or unplugs or something out of your control and it affects you and your recording adversely but not on purpose .... usually the problem comes to light in the middle of the recording or after its over

as a rule i tried to limit my reliance on the DJ or sound guy and provided my own mics on stands. I also invested in the best shotgun mic i could afford. I also relaxed my standard for the sound quality. I guess my news and documentary background allowed peace of mind me if my mics were not in place at the right time to use NAT sound off the shot gun .... as long as you could hear what was being said it's OK ..... no one ever complained the the hundreds of wedding i shot

I carried this rule to all of my event stuff. I set up my on mics for plays and recitals and ran those to channel two and a feed from the board on channel one if they gave me one.

FWIW : I once had a feed from a recital that i used exclusively wo external mics. they were mixing a mic with taped tracks ... on several performers the singers were belting it out so loud they didn't need to fed through the PA system so the sound guy backed the mic out of the mix to make it sound right for house. it sounded right to the audience but for my mix i was left nothing but the backing track. He did what he need to do for what he was hired for to make it sound good to the audience ... it wasn't malicious, nor intentional he didnt even know what was happening to me but it happened .... from that point own I realized i had to take care of my own and not rely on the sound orr DJ for my sound ... if i could get the help from them great but I was responsible solely for the sound that went onto my video not anyone else and I need to take all the measures to ensure my success which included plans that did not involve the sound guy or DJ or to take advantage of what ever he had available to "give" me buy being prepared with all the adapters and connectors and knowledge about sound i could carry with me .


paulears said:
Has it occurred to you that there may be a line out, but he simply has had a bad time with video people before, and just isn't willing to allow it. Of course he has a phones output, but you can bet he rather plans on using it to cue music?

I've not seen a modern mixer that doesn't have a record out - but you need to be nice to him to be allowed to use it!

I'm afraid that I have even done this myself, when a video guy has turned up at my theatre venue, as the audience are actually walking in, and demanded a feed. Sod him! If he'd come early, I could have done it - but in my case, moving the kit off the top of the mixer dog box, and possibly disturbing my system with no chance to test it means it just isn;t going to happen.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone.

>The VideoMic Pro would be better off used on the non-stationary camera. One thing you might try to do is use a little hot-shoe adapter that will allow you to pivot the VideoMic Pro so that it's pointing straight up at the ceiling, instead of pointing forward.

I will have a right angle hot shoe mount and will take your advise here.

>Has it occurred to you that there may be a line out, but he simply has had a bad time with video people before, and just isn't willing to allow it.

Right. He did sound generally puzzled when I asked him though. Which make me think is:

>third is the incompetent one who may be friendly or unfriendly

I am hoping this is the case so we can figure it out during setup... In any case I will have at least 3 recordings going at once :)

Thanks for all your input and time.
 
Grisnjam said:
Thanks everyone.

>The VideoMic Pro would be better off used on the non-stationary camera. One thing you might try to do is use a little hot-shoe adapter that will allow you to pivot the VideoMic Pro so that it's pointing straight up at the ceiling, instead of pointing forward.

I will have a right angle hot shoe mount and will take your advise here.

>Has it occurred to you that there may be a line out, but he simply has had a bad time with video people before, and just isn't willing to allow it.

Right. He did sound generally puzzled when I asked him though. Which make me think is:

>third is the incompetent one who may be friendly or unfriendly

I am hoping this is the case so we can figure it out during setup... In any case I will have at least 3 recordings going at once :)

Thanks for all your input and time.
Click to expand...

So the Wedding was on Saturday night and I wanted to hit this thread on more time with the outcome and to thank you all for helping me make it a success.

So the DJ was well meaning but clueless. I'll start and end with this; he was running the line in from his computer into the RCA jacks labeled 'Output Main' on his mixer. Why you may ask? His answer was "that is how I always do it". I have no idea how it worked.

So for the ceremony he basically stood there (and collected $50 extra for doing sound during the ceremony) while I set it all up. This was my first time with wireless lavs and a zoom R16 recorder and his mixer was pretty basic but I managed to get 1 lav on the priest, a wired mic for the guitar player and his acoustic pickup. I had the wireless lav's sensitivity a bit hot and it clipped slightly but overall I got a decent recording and the live audio sounded good too.

For the voves my VMP worked good enough but not as clean as I hoped (crazy windy outdoor wedding). For the toasts the VMP up close sounded good.

Thanks again everyone for helping with my first real wedding. I'll put the highlight video up once I am done editing...
 
If he's using powered speakers, you may have a line out from those. I've done it that way. Otherwise, put a dynamic mic in front of the speaker, and a shotgun near where the toasts are done. You may need to arrange with the couple/planer to have the toasts happen at one place - as in everyone walks up to the same spot and delivers their toast. That way you are covered from 2 angles. Just ask the guy what model PA speakers he's using and you can check the specks yourself to see if there's a line out. Or get the model of the mixer. He may be BSing you to avoid helping you, in which case you talk again to the couple hiring him. When requests come from the person paying the bills, those requests get honored usually. It's their wedding, and if any member of the overall team is not being cool it hurts the whole thing. Just have the person that hired the DJ say, "I need a line out for the videographer to catch the toasts" and then it's up th the DJ to make it so. From my experience just about every mixer has SOMETHING you can patch into. Even a "Tape Out" with a couple of RCA jacks is good. Then you just get a n "RCA male - to - XLR male" cable, and of course you need an attenuator for any of this stuff if you are recording at mic level:

Any videographer dealing with audio should have 2 each of these, but one each will get you by for the wedding. Also applicable for the ceremony PA

XLR Male to RCA Male Cable
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/133531-REG/Comprehensive_XLRP_PP_3ST_EXF_3_Pin_XLR_Male.html

Audio-Technica AT8202 Attenuator with 10, 20 or 30 db of Selectible Attenuation - In-Line XLR Barrel
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html
 
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