lawriejaffa
Veteran
Hey guys, I was typing away about my film Empire in Questfest, and thought that this might be suited to be posted here for a discussion. // so here it is!
I was thinking about war films today - (yes you guessed it - this is going to digress into a kind of personal essay!) Especially as I have an extra long lunch break! Plus the ability to touch type and ramble at the same time!
I have always been fascinated by military history, I think by nature most guys are to varying degrees. I mean you'll get enough guys who enjoy Saving Private Ryan, and loads of us grew up with films like 'The Great Escape, Kelly's Heroes and jeez the list goes on!'
Such films fall into the action / entertainment (and to varying degrees drama) genre - we've also had from the 70s really, much more psychological war films, traumatising nightmare style drama's surreal really, Apocalypse Now, Jacob's Ladder (and the Soviet film Come and See). So called anti-war films too, like Casaulty of War etc came about in the 80s, and some to this day like (Haditha.)
It's important to consider that as an indy filmmaker you are not bound by the same generalisations of these bigger films, and despite how unusual and different any of them may be, you have the ability to deliver a more personal and idiosyncratic story than any of them. Why should you want to? Because of the uneven playing field full stop with those generalised forms, and the chance that your own personal perspective may have just the unique quality that people find fascinating and makes it stand out.
This can apply to anything almost, but there are peculiarities of human experience that do apply ot war and conflict that require special attention and review!
We all have cultural influences based on where we're from, our history, and the way media and art influences us. If you were being stereotypical, you would expect an American filmmaker on this forum, to produce a heroic war film, all about one guy sacrificing for another, the star spangled banner fluttering in the background, the bugle playing, the modern set visit to a memorial. Modern conflict is often depicted in much the way action films of the 60s etc depicted ww2, (and my god, i hope to a lesser extent, 'patriotic...' films like Green Beret.
Most indy American filmmakers here have an apoliical detachment to the cause, and reasoning for the conflicts and choose to focus on the fraternity, comradeship of the soldiers themselves, 'we don't know why we're here but i ain't letting my brother go down without a fight'.
There is enough substance between the emotional bonds formed by fighting men to provide a good story, there is no denying that, but at what point does it become cliche?
The British Empire in various works celebrated those attributed beyond reasoning and policy to effect popular culture in such a way that it too popularised the soldiers and their sacrifices beyond scrutiny of the conflicts themselves. Should that mean war films should all examine the political reasonings (oh god absolutely not... unless your a European indy filmmaker hehe... but we'll get to cliche number 2 in a second!)
There are films that have combined in depth elements of human nature, the reasonings of war, and yet maintained an overall association with a popular genre. If you haven't seen it, I recommend the wonderfully subversive Cross of Iron directed by Sam Peckinpah.
European is a generalisation (which is a bigger stretch than to say American!) Interestingly enough because the UK has a kind of cultural detachment in regards to Europe we kind of see America... as one thing and Europe as another (with us as a kind of comical conceited seperation.)
But for sake of argument we'll lump Britain in with a Euro general comparison (infuriating as it may be too some here.) Because from either a lack of production, or exposure it is a bit tougher to generalise our indy war films, (still talking shorts here.) I'll have to discuss examples beyond whats been shown here on this forum.
I have found that in general we take war as a setting and circumstance (done onto mankind) where we experience the 'suffering' of our characters as a result. This may be done through psychological drama, it may be done through tragic drama, and if done conventionally will almost always be anti-establishment, subversive, and definaetly not romantic/ heroic. If there is a hero, he will fall victim to some insane rules of the bureacracy.
A hilarious example of that is in one of my favourite films (a poor example i admit) The Adventures of Baron Munchauson (Gilliam remake) where a war hero is executed for destroying many enemy cannon on the war's day off. A great American example is Catch 22 though would that have originated as a film?
In our film soldiers are cattle - often they are not very well educated - they represented a political and social class dimension that American war films do not. In Saving Pvt Ryan we have a mix of backgrounds all combined into a squad - like a baseball team - they all play together! In our films, soldiers are often represented as an oppressed working class, the subject of wars fought by their social / economic higher echolons... the bourgeioses upper classes etc.
Atrocity plays a big part in our films, genocide etc. America has experienced this in periods of history too with its native population, settlers and we can imagine horrible things going on in its Civil War. Yet for such a young country, these events I think in the minds of most Americans feel like a distant past, so they haven't affected their war storytelling in quite the same way.
In Europe genocide is weighed heavily in our consciousness (the only exception possibly Britain... in that we hold 2nd to the USA, a romanticising of ww2 albeit of a different kind!) We also have the background noise of centuries of genocide, religious violence, political violence and you name it!
In fact you can pick out of dozens upon dozens of European conflicts that saw atrocity occur in an unprecented scale - the 30 Years War saw the population of what is now modern Germany shrink by almost half! (We all know that war right...) but it all adds up in the fabric of society.
Add to all of this cultural stuff, the general difference that exists in the entrepeneurial realisations of american and european indy filmmakers (americans actually like to sell their films, europeans like to win peculiar looking statuettes hehe - ok) and this too effects how we tell our stories.
I think many American indy's prioritise within their war films = entertainment value, but for Europeans the priorities is expression (intellectual/political/social) none is more important than the other incidentally, but we can fall too far by the wayside (in either way) and become parodies of ourselves.
Speaking personally, I try not to detach myself too far emotionally from any war film topic because while its all 'pretend' before the camera's - its not really to anyone whose experienced it. It may be why i find torture porn films a little distasteful (and others don't!) because the reality is that such things happen, and if theres no point to it, it comes across as a naive indulgement in a world of violence that type of viewer will never know. (I love horror movies btw!)
That's definately not to say that war films should not have entertainment and should just focus on the worst - because we know within conflict there are acts of heroism, kindness and even beauty. But we must consider that these are positive incidents taking place within an actual war. Most of us here just don't know what thats like, even militaries try their best to shield the consequences (i think) of their own actions to their soldiers (like it works.)
Perhaps what we need for such films is entertainment with respect... but not respect firsthand to the soldiers... to the victims. Civilians (which we say as a kind of peculiar exception to ourselves, as most 'civilians' are exotic foriegn looking people babbling in grief outside UN aid tents whom we could never relate to because their not holding an ipod...'
Can we tell their stories too within a war film without falling prey to romanticising and melodramatising the plight of such people? (In America that would be euatable to wimpish liberal style perspectives hehe) in Europe, the 'poor little colonials' - lets give them a hug style attitude. I think it can, a film taht did do this i think (in a very severe way) was The Killing Fields... a film that did not... was When We were Soldiers (hold onto your popcorn boys!)
Right, lunch break is almost ending... lets bring this back to us the filmmaker. We can take these broad cultural brushes that have influenced us, and make films based on that exactly because we haven't experienced conflict, or the lives of those affected by conflict.
Or we can seek out people who have experienced it, and learn from their stories, and grow up a little as a result. In and around my work I volanteer my time to give advice to a group of veterans who recieve treatment for post traumatic stress disorder.
There stories are affecting but also inspiring for subject matter. One man, a Scotsman who (to annoy his father) volanteered for an English regiment, served in Northern Ireland, and was always made to 'speak to the natives' because they responded better to him than them... While he saw comrades killed... and maimed during the violence that took place there, one of his most upsetting incidents, was when he had to go and wake up a family, of a single mother and her children on Christmas day - as soldiers broke into the house to search for suspected weapons.
There was none found, but the soldier, with the kids and mother crying in one room, watched with dismay as the soldiers, inevitably had to search everywhere, including tearing open all the childrens presents. Now... for the teenager about to make a movie in his back garden celebrating war's heroics... would their ipod bearing xmas be quite the same with that kind of memory? Would their subsequent adolescent war film be too?
Of course, there is horrific uncensored news media around the internet as well depicting acts of atrocity, execution, and nightmares that go beyond the pale. In my research for projects I went through a lot of such material, and the more you realise that for as horrible as it is to watch, that these people see it for real, suffer it for real... and for some - enjoy it for real. The more you realise that the war film per say, is covered so well in terms of superficiality by the big studios, that you the indy filmmaker have this unseen face of reality at your disposal, to inspire you to tell real war films, of any genre.
If you can handle it.
I was thinking about war films today - (yes you guessed it - this is going to digress into a kind of personal essay!) Especially as I have an extra long lunch break! Plus the ability to touch type and ramble at the same time!
I have always been fascinated by military history, I think by nature most guys are to varying degrees. I mean you'll get enough guys who enjoy Saving Private Ryan, and loads of us grew up with films like 'The Great Escape, Kelly's Heroes and jeez the list goes on!'
Such films fall into the action / entertainment (and to varying degrees drama) genre - we've also had from the 70s really, much more psychological war films, traumatising nightmare style drama's surreal really, Apocalypse Now, Jacob's Ladder (and the Soviet film Come and See). So called anti-war films too, like Casaulty of War etc came about in the 80s, and some to this day like (Haditha.)
It's important to consider that as an indy filmmaker you are not bound by the same generalisations of these bigger films, and despite how unusual and different any of them may be, you have the ability to deliver a more personal and idiosyncratic story than any of them. Why should you want to? Because of the uneven playing field full stop with those generalised forms, and the chance that your own personal perspective may have just the unique quality that people find fascinating and makes it stand out.
This can apply to anything almost, but there are peculiarities of human experience that do apply ot war and conflict that require special attention and review!
We all have cultural influences based on where we're from, our history, and the way media and art influences us. If you were being stereotypical, you would expect an American filmmaker on this forum, to produce a heroic war film, all about one guy sacrificing for another, the star spangled banner fluttering in the background, the bugle playing, the modern set visit to a memorial. Modern conflict is often depicted in much the way action films of the 60s etc depicted ww2, (and my god, i hope to a lesser extent, 'patriotic...' films like Green Beret.
Most indy American filmmakers here have an apoliical detachment to the cause, and reasoning for the conflicts and choose to focus on the fraternity, comradeship of the soldiers themselves, 'we don't know why we're here but i ain't letting my brother go down without a fight'.
There is enough substance between the emotional bonds formed by fighting men to provide a good story, there is no denying that, but at what point does it become cliche?
The British Empire in various works celebrated those attributed beyond reasoning and policy to effect popular culture in such a way that it too popularised the soldiers and their sacrifices beyond scrutiny of the conflicts themselves. Should that mean war films should all examine the political reasonings (oh god absolutely not... unless your a European indy filmmaker hehe... but we'll get to cliche number 2 in a second!)
There are films that have combined in depth elements of human nature, the reasonings of war, and yet maintained an overall association with a popular genre. If you haven't seen it, I recommend the wonderfully subversive Cross of Iron directed by Sam Peckinpah.
European is a generalisation (which is a bigger stretch than to say American!) Interestingly enough because the UK has a kind of cultural detachment in regards to Europe we kind of see America... as one thing and Europe as another (with us as a kind of comical conceited seperation.)
But for sake of argument we'll lump Britain in with a Euro general comparison (infuriating as it may be too some here.) Because from either a lack of production, or exposure it is a bit tougher to generalise our indy war films, (still talking shorts here.) I'll have to discuss examples beyond whats been shown here on this forum.
I have found that in general we take war as a setting and circumstance (done onto mankind) where we experience the 'suffering' of our characters as a result. This may be done through psychological drama, it may be done through tragic drama, and if done conventionally will almost always be anti-establishment, subversive, and definaetly not romantic/ heroic. If there is a hero, he will fall victim to some insane rules of the bureacracy.
A hilarious example of that is in one of my favourite films (a poor example i admit) The Adventures of Baron Munchauson (Gilliam remake) where a war hero is executed for destroying many enemy cannon on the war's day off. A great American example is Catch 22 though would that have originated as a film?
In our film soldiers are cattle - often they are not very well educated - they represented a political and social class dimension that American war films do not. In Saving Pvt Ryan we have a mix of backgrounds all combined into a squad - like a baseball team - they all play together! In our films, soldiers are often represented as an oppressed working class, the subject of wars fought by their social / economic higher echolons... the bourgeioses upper classes etc.
Atrocity plays a big part in our films, genocide etc. America has experienced this in periods of history too with its native population, settlers and we can imagine horrible things going on in its Civil War. Yet for such a young country, these events I think in the minds of most Americans feel like a distant past, so they haven't affected their war storytelling in quite the same way.
In Europe genocide is weighed heavily in our consciousness (the only exception possibly Britain... in that we hold 2nd to the USA, a romanticising of ww2 albeit of a different kind!) We also have the background noise of centuries of genocide, religious violence, political violence and you name it!
In fact you can pick out of dozens upon dozens of European conflicts that saw atrocity occur in an unprecented scale - the 30 Years War saw the population of what is now modern Germany shrink by almost half! (We all know that war right...) but it all adds up in the fabric of society.
Add to all of this cultural stuff, the general difference that exists in the entrepeneurial realisations of american and european indy filmmakers (americans actually like to sell their films, europeans like to win peculiar looking statuettes hehe - ok) and this too effects how we tell our stories.
I think many American indy's prioritise within their war films = entertainment value, but for Europeans the priorities is expression (intellectual/political/social) none is more important than the other incidentally, but we can fall too far by the wayside (in either way) and become parodies of ourselves.
Speaking personally, I try not to detach myself too far emotionally from any war film topic because while its all 'pretend' before the camera's - its not really to anyone whose experienced it. It may be why i find torture porn films a little distasteful (and others don't!) because the reality is that such things happen, and if theres no point to it, it comes across as a naive indulgement in a world of violence that type of viewer will never know. (I love horror movies btw!)
That's definately not to say that war films should not have entertainment and should just focus on the worst - because we know within conflict there are acts of heroism, kindness and even beauty. But we must consider that these are positive incidents taking place within an actual war. Most of us here just don't know what thats like, even militaries try their best to shield the consequences (i think) of their own actions to their soldiers (like it works.)
Perhaps what we need for such films is entertainment with respect... but not respect firsthand to the soldiers... to the victims. Civilians (which we say as a kind of peculiar exception to ourselves, as most 'civilians' are exotic foriegn looking people babbling in grief outside UN aid tents whom we could never relate to because their not holding an ipod...'
Can we tell their stories too within a war film without falling prey to romanticising and melodramatising the plight of such people? (In America that would be euatable to wimpish liberal style perspectives hehe) in Europe, the 'poor little colonials' - lets give them a hug style attitude. I think it can, a film taht did do this i think (in a very severe way) was The Killing Fields... a film that did not... was When We were Soldiers (hold onto your popcorn boys!)
Right, lunch break is almost ending... lets bring this back to us the filmmaker. We can take these broad cultural brushes that have influenced us, and make films based on that exactly because we haven't experienced conflict, or the lives of those affected by conflict.
Or we can seek out people who have experienced it, and learn from their stories, and grow up a little as a result. In and around my work I volanteer my time to give advice to a group of veterans who recieve treatment for post traumatic stress disorder.
There stories are affecting but also inspiring for subject matter. One man, a Scotsman who (to annoy his father) volanteered for an English regiment, served in Northern Ireland, and was always made to 'speak to the natives' because they responded better to him than them... While he saw comrades killed... and maimed during the violence that took place there, one of his most upsetting incidents, was when he had to go and wake up a family, of a single mother and her children on Christmas day - as soldiers broke into the house to search for suspected weapons.
There was none found, but the soldier, with the kids and mother crying in one room, watched with dismay as the soldiers, inevitably had to search everywhere, including tearing open all the childrens presents. Now... for the teenager about to make a movie in his back garden celebrating war's heroics... would their ipod bearing xmas be quite the same with that kind of memory? Would their subsequent adolescent war film be too?
Of course, there is horrific uncensored news media around the internet as well depicting acts of atrocity, execution, and nightmares that go beyond the pale. In my research for projects I went through a lot of such material, and the more you realise that for as horrible as it is to watch, that these people see it for real, suffer it for real... and for some - enjoy it for real. The more you realise that the war film per say, is covered so well in terms of superficiality by the big studios, that you the indy filmmaker have this unseen face of reality at your disposal, to inspire you to tell real war films, of any genre.
If you can handle it.