Wanting to by a new Camera- Help!

J

jclarkey

New member
Hello,

I am looking to by a new camera in the next couple of months, but am having a hard time deciding what to get. We are doing a shoot in the new year in which we will be getting paid around $5000. I would like to invest this back into some new equipment like a Monitor, Mic and Camera. I have been doing some research but dont know enough about the DVX cameras to really decide. I have been a loyal customer to Canon both with my HV20, HV30 and my Rebel SLR. Is the XHA1 a good buy?

Let me know what you are using, and the pros and cons. I am looking forward to getting a new toy, but want to make sure that it is one that I can keep for a while.

Cheers,

Clarkey
 
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I have always been a panasonic guy and use an HVX200a but the one time I used the XHA1 I liked it. I think you would be happy with it.
 
A tape based HDV camera? Now? In this era? I coudn't fathom recommending this.
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I like having the DV tapes as back ups. Its old school, but effective for me. I think you can get a hard drive add on for the XHA1 so that could be a good add on in the future. Any suggestions on another type of camera?

Cheers
 
jclarkey said:
I like having the DV tapes as back ups. Its old school, but effective for me. I think you can get a hard drive add on for the XHA1 so that could be a good add on in the future. Any suggestions on another type of camera?

Cheers
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Backups are one thing. Having to ingest tapes to begin the workflow is another. Recording onto the weakest HD format isn't really forward thinking either. I mean even $500 consumer cameras these days are writing the full raster, why look at a 1440x1080 INTERLACED only camera?

In order to make any viable suggestions, we'd need to know what your needs are? Do you need to record audio in the camera? Do you need HDMI or HD-SDI out for monitoring or recording? What is your budget? What subject matter do you shoot? Indie film? Nature? Football games?

What NLE do you use and are you wed to it? What kind of computer will you be editing on? Is it a current model (i7/Quadcore) or something older? Do you shoot alone or will you have a crew when you shoot? Are you mostly on a tripod or do you need mobility when you shoot?

Tons of factors go into selecting a suitable camera.
 
PerroneFord said:
In order to make any viable suggestions, we'd need to know what your needs are? Do you need to record audio in the camera? Do you need HDMI or HD-SDI out for monitoring or recording? What is your budget? What subject matter do you shoot? Indie film? Nature? Football games?

What NLE do you use and are you wed to it? What kind of computer will you be editing on? Is it a current model (i7/Quadcore) or something older? Do you shoot alone or will you have a crew when you shoot? Are you mostly on a tripod or do you need mobility when you shoot?

Tons of factors go into selecting a suitable camera.
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Plus the budget.

The OP mentioned something about $5000 for a cam and mics and a monitor and... etc. How much of that is for the cam? IMHO, $5000 will only be enough for all of that gear if you're willing to compromise on some things.
 
PerroneFord said:
Backups are one thing. Having to ingest tapes to begin the workflow is another. Recording onto the weakest HD format isn't really forward thinking either. I mean even $500 consumer cameras these days are writing the full raster, why look at a 1440x1080 INTERLACED only camera?

In order to make any viable suggestions, we'd need to know what your needs are? Do you need to record audio in the camera? Do you need HDMI or HD-SDI out for monitoring or recording? What is your budget? What subject matter do you shoot? Indie film? Nature? Football games?

What NLE do you use and are you wed to it? What kind of computer will you be editing on? Is it a current model (i7/Quadcore) or something older? Do you shoot alone or will you have a crew when you shoot? Are you mostly on a tripod or do you need mobility when you shoot?

Tons of factors go into selecting a suitable camera.
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Answers:

-I would like to have the option to record audio, but have a field recorder so not critical
-HDMI or HD-SDI, not picky at this point
-
We are doing a shoot in the new year in which we will be getting paid around $5000
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-Mainly shoot indie films, and commercial stuff
-I edit on Sony Vegas 9
-I edit on a PC (dual core)
-I have a crew of 6
-I shoot tripod, 12' crane, 4' crane, dolly, steadycam

Did I miss anything?
 
Dingos8mybaby said:
Plus the budget.

The OP mentioned something about $5000 for a cam and mics and a monitor and... etc. How much of that is for the cam? IMHO, $5000 will only be enough for all of that gear if you're willing to compromise on some things.
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I would like to keep the budget to around $3500 but if a good deal comes around I would spend the full $5000 on the cam.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
$3500 is fine and everything, but why would you invest all $5000 on the camera? You say you shoot on cranes/tripods, use steadicams, etc but are you going to NEED those or are those things you rent?

What EXACTLY is on the list of stuff that you want to buy?

Camera, mics and a monitor? Is that all or are there other things to add to the list?

Kegan
 
Well, given what you said, you might consider something like the Canon 5D. I wouldn't recommend it for most folks, but you already have off-board audio recording, and you have a crew. You don't seem to be shooting events which would preclude you using the camera, and it doesn't look like you'll be shooting anything where you couldn't work around the aliasing.

Magic Lantern would solve most of your internal camera issues like monitoring, audio into camera, etc. The 24p option is forthcoming. For somewhere around $5k or less, you could outfit it nicely with a lens adapter and some very nice Nikon glass. A set of rails wouldn't be out of the question either allowing focusing options by the operator or a crew member, and would give you the option of a shoulder mount.

The workflow would entail a transcode, but honestly, if you are doing professional level work, you shoud be transcoding to an editing codec anyway.

It's an option.. and there are many others, but one I'd certainly consider in your place.
 
I already own all the equipment (crane, dolly, etc) I just got a Handy35 for my HV40 and would like to invest in a better monitor for it. I would also like to get a nice shotgun mic at some point.

I am really just looking for some solid advice on what the best camera is right now in the $3500-$5000 price range.
 
PerroneFord said:
Backups are one thing. Having to ingest tapes to begin the workflow is another. Recording onto the weakest HD format isn't really forward thinking either. I mean even $500 consumer cameras these days are writing the full raster, why look at a 1440x1080 INTERLACED only camera?
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Well, first of all it's not an Interlaced only camera. The chips are interlaced but 24F mode is true progressive.

I've owned the A1 for nearly 3 years and so far it's fulfilled all of my needs. I actually thought about upgrading to solid state a few times but actually couldn't find anything that does everything the A1 does for it's price, and it comes down to 2 factors

1) Resolution. At the $3k price range, this camera is sharp, very sharp. Not EX1 level sharp but it beats the HMC150, it's main competitor, in sharpness. The HMC40 is probably sharper, but I'll be giving up the form factor and manual control options.
2) SD recording; this one is huge. I'm regularly asked to deliver on DVD where there's just no point in shooting HD and downconverting. DV is easy to edit, looks just as good as downconverted HD (I've ran extensive tests) and doesn't tie up my computer resources. WHY are all these fancy new cameras HD only?

Tape is a weakness, but that's hardly the reason to dismiss the A1 out of hand. The new A1s, with its 6-pin FW, would be an excellent candidate for something like the Sony CF recording module that would turn that argument moot.
 
Huy Vu said:
2) SD recording; this one is huge. I'm regularly asked to deliver on DVD where there's just no point in shooting HD and downconverting. DV is easy to edit, looks just as good as downconverted HD (I've ran extensive tests) and doesn't tie up my computer resources. WHY are all these fancy new cameras HD only?
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I don't know how you're testing, or with what cameras, but down converted HD should look better and does in my experience. Assuming you have a solid HD camera to start with. I've delivered EX1 video as SD for a year and a half. It's tack sharp and is leagues better than my DVX100 SD video.

Additionally, I would hardly call an HDV camera with no HDMI or SDI port, "forward thinking". The A1 was a fine camera for it's time. But going forward, I'd have to say no. Clearly, others will have a varied opinion.
 
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PerroneFord said:
I don't know how you're testing, or with what cameras, but down converted HD should look better and does in my experience. Assuming you have a solid HD camera to start with. I've delivered EX1 video as SD for a year and a half. It's tack sharp and is leagues better than my DVX100 SD video.
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Well, if you're testing against the DVX then of course the EX1 downconvert beats its hands down considering the DVX isn't even a native 16:9 camera. I'm talking about testing the A1 against the A1. That is, shooting HD and SD footages of the same scene, then downconverting the HD footage and going straight to DVD. I actually spent several days doing this, varying downconversion techniques, bitrates, render methods etc., then taking stills for side by side pixel extract. The results are indistinguishable. The A1 delivers tack sharp SD video, easily beating the DVX in native 16:9 SD (I've tested this too). For me it's a no brainer if I need to deliver on DVD. Considering that XDCAM EX and AVCHD are both highly taxing to edit, I really don't see the point in wasting hours and hours in render time for questionable gain in resolution.

PerroneFord said:
Additionally, I would hardly call an HDV camera with no HDMI or SDI port, "forward thinking". The A1 was a fine camera for it's time. But going forward, I'd have to say no. Clearly, others will have a varied opinion.
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Mileage varies, my needs are different from yours. I consider HDV a fine acquisition codec for the type of shooting I do; it certain hasn't failed me yet. As to HDMI or HDSDI, they're overrated unless you intend to use Nanoflash or something similar; and that's a considerable investment going forward, sorta like how people buy an interchangeable lens camera but never got beyond the stock lens. Right now there are things that the A1 can do for me that the newer crop of cameras can't, and the OP really needs to consider what his needs are instead of being focused on buying the newest and shiniest cam; it might be beneficial for him to look backward instead of forward so that he can get the best bang for the buck.
 
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Huy Vu said:
Well, if you're testing against the DVX then of course the EX1 downconvert beats its hands down considering the DVX isn't even a native 16:9 camera. I'm talking about testing the A1 against the A1. That is, shooting HD and SD footages of the same scene, then downconverting the HD footage and going straight to DVD.
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Ah that makes more sense. Certainly if using all the sensor on an HD camera to shoot SD footage, one would expect it to be better. Brighter as well. I thought you meant testing it against a real SD camera.

Huy Vu said:
Mileage varies, my needs are different from yours. I consider HDV a fine acquisition codec for the type of shooting I do; it certain hasn't failed me yet. As to HDMI or HDSDI, they're overrated unless you intend to use Nanoflash or something similar; and that's a considerable investment going forward, sorta like how people buy an interchangeable lens camera but never got beyond the stock lens. Right now there are things that the A1 can do for me that the newer crop of cameras can't, and the OP really needs to consider what his needs are instead of being focused on buying the newest and shiniest cam; it might be beneficial for him to look backward instead of forward so that he can get the best bang for the buck.
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Right. Without having an understanding of need, we are just shooting in the dark. HDV works for you, doesn't quite get it done for me. For me, HDMI and SDI on the same camera would be ideal. And I am seriously considering renting a Nanoflash until I can buy one.

I am REALLY surprised you think the XDCam codec is hard to edit. It cuts nearly like SD for me. Laptop and desktop. But then I don't know what your editing platform is.

I agree that new and shiny isn't always better.... but sometimes it really is.
 
PerroneFord said:
I am REALLY surprised you think the XDCam codec is hard to edit. It cuts nearly like SD for me. Laptop and desktop. But then I don't know what your editing platform is.
.
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Well...not that hard, actually. I worked with the EX1 on my film Anniversary and it was fine (loved the sharpness and the low light performance actually); post production wasn't difficult as long as the length is reasonable. But a lot of what I do is long-form event coverage (plays, dance concerts etc.) where the final project is nearly 2 hours long. Having that much footage in XDCAM or AVCHD on the timeline would absolutely kill my render time and probably crash my NLE.
 
I second the hmc150 option or in case you want dvcpro hd codec (and extra functions) the hpx170 (if you don't mind spending lots of mony on cards).
 
Huy Vu said:
But a lot of what I do is long-form event coverage (plays, dance concerts etc.) where the final project is nearly 2 hours long. Having that much footage in XDCAM or AVCHD on the timeline would absolutely kill my render time and probably crash my NLE.
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What are you cutting on? I regularly do long form events. I've had 4-8 hours of XDCam on my timeline without a hiccup. One of my annual conferences is 3 8 hour days. Broken up into 4 hours morning, 4 hours afternoon.

I used to do this in SD (DVX, then HDV (EX1 in HDV mode) now just in regular XDCamEX.
 
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