VO Studio Setup, Thoughts and Suggestions?

ZephyrStar

ZephyrStar

Active member
Greetings everyone!

After reading through the stickies for hours, and ordering a couple of recommended books on audio and recording, I'm finally to the point of making a post to ask for your help :) Chances are I won't be buying my gear until after I've read the books, but I thought it might be a good idea to get some general impressions. This forum has already offered up some really great information.

I am currently in the process of creating a feature length 3DCG animated film. I am getting close to the point of needing to record my VO work, as I will be basing the final animatic off of this VO work. That will let me get picture lock so I can actually begin the 3D animation. My target format will primarily be DVD/BD, with a lesser quality encode for streaming sites.

Right now I'm trying to get together a kit to do the VO work with, and eventual sound FX. My budget is around $700. What I have in mind is:

Rode NT1-A - for recording the VO work.
Zoom H4n - can be used with the Rode, but also can use the built in stereo mics for ambient recording & sound FX work.

I'm not too worried about the quality of the Zoom when recording SFX and ambiance, but do you think I would benefit from buying a different pre-amp for the Rode? I suppose I could get the Zoom and see how it does with the Rode, and then upgrade if needs be. I also was looking at the Centrance Micport Pro as a possible companion to the Rode, and then maybe getting a Zoom H2 for the SFX work. Anyone have any experience with the Micport Pro?

I also checked out the Marantz PMD 661...which looks like a fine piece of kit, but is also most of my budget.

The other thing I have to consider is that a friend will be shooting a "special features" documentary about how the film is being made to go on the DVD...he will be using a Canon Vixia. Our thoughts were to use whatever gear I buy for the VO work to do the special features as well. I'm not terribly worried about that as a lot of the special feature material will be myself speaking to what is being shown on screen, and when we have to interview someone, I don't really mind having a studio mic in the shot for the special feature interviews :)

Thoughts? Thanks in advance guys.
 
Check out the Sound Devices MP-1 preamp: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sound+devices+mp-1&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

The Rode mic is a fine start, don't forget a good pop screen, also buy a couple sheets of Auralex to make a U shape around the mic if your room isn't treated.

Much better recorder but requires a preamp to power the Rode http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html

Then in accessories you'll see the pro co sound http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/it...404075/is/REG/type/acc/ignoreSessionTimeOut/Y
This allows connection from preamp to M10 recorder.

It is a bit over budget but will give you much better sound quality. Don't forget a decent mic cable... Also you can probably find any of the above used, which will save some bux.
 
wbrock001, as a side note, do you use the Sony PCM M10 for film sound recording at all? I hear the Sony is good but no XLRs. Thanks.
 
wbrock001 said:
Check out the Sound Devices MP-1 preamp: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sound+devices+mp-1&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

The Rode mic is a fine start, don't forget a good pop screen, also buy a couple sheets of Auralex to make a U shape around the mic if your room isn't treated.

Much better recorder but requires a preamp to power the Rode http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html

Then in accessories you'll see the pro co sound http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/it...404075/is/REG/type/acc/ignoreSessionTimeOut/Y
This allows connection from preamp to M10 recorder.

It is a bit over budget but will give you much better sound quality. Don't forget a decent mic cable... Also you can probably find any of the above used, which will save some bux.
Click to expand...

I certainly had been eyeing some preamps, but I had not seen the MP-1. That looks perfect for what I want to do. How do the onboard mics of the Sony compare to the Zoom H4/H2 I wonder? That would indeed push the budget up a little, but if the quality is exponentially better then it would be worth it. Thanks for the suggestions!
 
If you're doing a feature length film's worth of VO, I personally wouldn't want to fiddle around with an H4n on my desk the whole time. The H4n is decent for what it was designed for (which is essentially a tool for musicians to record in the field), but not so great for computer recording.

I would get a dedicated audio interface for recording VO into a computer. The Tascam US-100 is a great tool for this, and it's amazingly inexpensive:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/648495-REG/Tascam_US_100_US_100_USB_2_0_Computer.html

You can plug a condenser like the Rode NT1-A into it, use its phantom power and be fine. Yeah, it would be marginally better to use an external preamp like the Sound Devices, but it will make your set-up that much more disjointed (having the MP-1 plugged into the H4n - it's just a little messy and odd). If you're going to go for a Sound Devices, their USBPre 2 makes a lot more sense for this kind of work, but it eats up the brunt of your budget.

The nice thing about using an audio interface is that it's designed for desk work. You plug your mic and headphones and speakers into it. You control your headphone and speaker volumes independantly, which is hugely important.

And speaking of which, are your getting speakers (AKA "studio monitors" in pro audio vocabulary)? It's critical gear. Let's break it down:


You're getting the NT1-A, I imagine the kit that comes with the shockmount and pop-filter (both of which are crucial). That's $229. Good start.

Then you need a mic stand of some sort (desk top or floor stand). Let's say that's $30 and move on.

You need an XLR cable, areound 10 feet is good. $20.

Tascam US-100 interface (if you go my route), $70.

To get a decent set of studio monitors, you have to spend a minimum of $300 (for a pair of KRK RoKit 5 G2's or similiar). But you can get buy with a lesser set of "AV Desktop Monitors" (more pro audio vocab at work there), like a pair of Tascam VL-M3 active monitors ($70) or M-Audio Studiophile AV 30's ($99) or Roland MA-15D's ($180). Let's just say you spend $100 on these. You've only spent $450 so far.

You need headphones. Don't cheap out here becuase you'll be wearing these things for untold hours. You can research endlessly and audition tons of pairs of headphones, or you can just buy a pair of Sony MDR-7506 and use that other energy on something else ($100).

Now you've got a nice little VO studio, and enough cash left over to buy the Sony PCM-M10 (which was a suggestion I fully agree with).

As you research building you VO set-up, put some money & effort into killing the room ambiance (using a piece of foam around the mic or build something). You can do this kind of thing on the cheap with a little ingenuity and elbow grease. Well worth your efforts there.
 
Something to consider, though the NT1 is a decent start, you will want to consider other LDC mics in addition to your first one. This is because one mic does not fit all, especially in a intimate recording like a VO. The Nt1 is a tad bright, but very usable. You may want to consider a tube mic, ribbon mic (CR14) and a dynamic (RE20) to help round out your initial arsenal. (those are just examples of those mics)

I say this because if you are building an actual VO studio/booth, you are going to be putting some money in it and now is the time to start considering the "paintbrushes" in your box. Eventually, you will want to set up a small DAW, instead of the H4n, to get the most out of your booth. With the H4n (great for location/portability), you are limited on shaping your sound (and you will be dumping it into a computer anyway), whereas a small laptop DAW will give you many more tools to work with. Another issue that may arise is monitoring. Most VO artists like to be able to hear what it is they are saying and how they are saying it, but you need to monitor it as well. The H4n has one HP out. You could buy a HP amp, but thats one more thing you will need to carry with you.

Just things to think about for the future.
 
Assume you have a good laptop (or desktop if mobility is no concern at all). Then I don't think you really need a portable/field recorder like H4n. If you are mostly concerned with VO, then all you need is probably just this:

1-1) A decent large-diaphragm USB microphone, such as Rode podcast: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/450171-REG/Rode_PODCASTER_Podcaster_USB_Broadcast_Microphone.html

2) one XLR cable
3) decent audio editing software, such as Sony Sound Forge.
4) inexpensive microphone stand
5) monitoring headphones
6) (optionally) some sound-dampening materials to the effect of a makeshift booth

The hardware can barely cost you $350. However, if you are most concerned about SFX and ambient sound, then you could replace the USB microphone with a small diaphragm mic + a USB preamp. Here's one example:

1-2) Rode NT5 plus this MicPort Pro: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ce_Inc_CE1801_MicPort_Pro_USB_Microphone.html

This will increase the total cost by about $150 to roughly $500. If you think you want to record everything you need, however, I'd say: buy both a large and a small diaphragm mic, plus a USB preamp. Here is one example:

1-3) Rode NT-1A, Rode NT5, and MicPort Pro.

The rest being the same. This will use up all your $700 budget, for good. However, if your budget does not include software as you very likely already have it, then buying something extra like Zoom H2 will not make you go over your budget. And it may free you from being tethered to a computer all the time. Many options exist.
 
Everyone here has some great suggestions. I just really want to stress the absolute importants of treating your room and booth. This will play a major factor in amature to pro sound. Not just acoustically, but also stopping any house hold noises and hum from entering the recording area.

If this isn't an option, then a ldc is not the best choice. A SDC, or dynamic would sound much better. I'm not a fan of the rode anything but especially not the nt5 you will only use it for a year before you throw it out. My RE 20 is my favourite mic I own and is a great investment. Also it's dynamic and will help with an isolated sound.

After this, let's say you get an mbox pro, protools is a great software that comes with it. But as with any software, plugins will help a ton when editing. I love izotope plugins, and they have great presets for inexperienced users.

After all this you will find that separate pres will give you that great quality you will need. M audio Tampa pre is great sounding pre with other options and is relatively inexpensive.

Lastly, monitoring. You will need headphones most definitely but only get studio monitors if you treat your room, otherwise they are useless.

Good luck,

You should post pictures of the construction as it comes together. Always exciting to see a build in progress!
 
I'm going to jump in with some different angles. Your close to a good film school. If visuals is your thing then I wouldn't do the sound also. Really nobody does both successfully. This is partially because brains focus on one thing or the other and if your a visual person then your just going to miss a bunch of sound stuff. You can be good at both but not at the same time.

But you close to a school so there are going to be sound folks who are lousy at visuals, Bingo!

This is not such a big deal with VO, though technically it's probably not VO since your going to sync lips or something to it?

As a pure VO/ voice acting mic I would lean toward the Heil PR40. FX is a big field. You can go with a small recorder and pick up a lot of stuff.

But again this is a business that has specialties. If sound is not what you want to do for a living I would highly recommend finding someone who does to do your sound.

I have said it before, "film is a team sport". You can play it alone but picture a full professional football team. Now picture your self as the entire opposing team. Now wouldn't your chances of surviving be better if you could get a few more bodies on your side? That is kind of the deal. You want to win awards or get into festivals or just plain make money. Well your real competition has a team, you need one also or you will get squashed like a bug.

If you find someone and they need some advice, sounds etc. drop me a line and I will be happy to mentor them through your film. I'm actually fairly close these days so...
 
Wow guys, I just have to say, this forum never ceases to amaze me for the wealth of great information.

@Sam: I had looked at things like this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AudioBoxUSB/ which I'm guessing is pretty similar. Does the Tascam provide phantom power for the mic? As far as the additional gear goes, yes, I will need to purchase the things you listed. I was going to start out with a decent headset, Sony MDR-7506 looks like a winner. I know I'll need studio monitors eventually, but I thought maybe I could delay that purchase a little bit until I'm ready to do my editing. I figure I'll go ahead and get the basics, and then learn to use them prior to recording my voiceovers for the actual film. I'm also beginning to think the Sony PCM-M10 is going to be an absolute. I may delay buying that until I get around to the sfx work. 100% there with you about studio setup as well, all this gear and time would go to waste without a properly treated room.


@Doc: I hear you for sure, great suggestions.


@henryqiu: Have a good laptop, have a beast of a desktop. I am very interested in a piece of kit like the MicPort...this thing seems like the ideal thing to get a decent mic set up with a laptop and record VO on the go. For a long time I have been a little weary of the USB all-in-one mics such as the MXL .009, but they get awesome reviews. I'm just wondering if something like that with built in pre would compare to the sound of the NT1-A through a nice usb pre like the ones mentioned in this thread. The MicPort is cheap enough I guess that if I wanted to add it later I could.


@Mitch: Thanks for the info, I have also looked at the mbox and protools. As of right now I own Adobe CS5 Production, so I will have Audition. I understand Audition is not as robust a product as Protools? (makes me wonder what plugins might be available for it) Again I think I'll be waiting on the monitors until I get some basics down, but the headphones will be a must-have. I'll consider pics too, it's pretty messy at the moment ;)


@Noiz2: Visuals are my thing for sure. And I agree with you that one can be good at both but not at the same time. But then again, I'm one guy trying to make an animated film, so I don't listen to reason :p And you're right, technically it's not VO. My workflow looks somewhat like this:

- get audio gear, become familiar with
- create an animatic from the storyboards, using my own reading of the script for pacing
- animatic will be provided for voice actors to reference
- record the voice work
- re-time animatic using final voice work
- characters animated to the voice work

This provides for much more emotive character animation as it allows for the voice actors to really do their thing without the constraint of trying to match a finished scene, then I can tailor the animation to the performance that the voice actors bring out. I'm certainly not beyond finding people to help with the production.

I hear you on the film as team sport for sure. Without getting into the specifics, let's just say I want to one man it for the sheer, absolute fun of it, however unreasonable that might be. However, if you are offering some mentoring advice, I would happily take you up on that. I would never turn down expertise :)
 
ZephyrStar,

Your work flow is pretty much the way most animated films work. Until you get to the post sound work your probably fine. At that point we should talk a bit. But you can drop me a line any time. email works better than PMs.
 
- get audio gear, become familiar with
- create an animatic from the storyboards, using my own reading of the script for pacing
- animatic will be provided for voice actors to reference
- record the voice work
- re-time animatic using final voice work
- characters animated to the voice work
Click to expand...
Ah, pretty much ADR.
 
Doc Bernard said:
Ah, pretty much ADR.
Click to expand...

Actually just about the opposite of ADR. Your recording for performance and syncing picture to the sound. ADR you would be recording for sync and manipulating the sound to sync to the picture.

Maybe ALR (automated lip replacement) ;~)
 
Doc Bernard said:
6 of one, half a dozen the other, LOL. ADR is my catch-all phrase for anything involving swapping vocals.
Click to expand...

That was kind of my point. this is recording original dialog, your not swapping anything.

It significant because what you need to record for animation is much simpler than what he would need to do a decent job on ADR. If he goes around asking for advice on recording ADR he will get a lot of info that has nothing to do with what he needs to do.

It's a little like using the tern Foley when you mean FX. On the one hand people will generally know what your talking about but you can get into lots of "bad" information because your thinking one thing but people are giving you good information for something different.

Restrooms all have the same function but you can get into trouble going into the women's, if your not one. Some times distinctions are important ;~)
 
Ok, I saw on step two he was using his own voice for pacing/timing, then recording the voice actors. I figured that was an audio track that he was recording to first and then replacing.

Shows what I know about animation.........
 
Thanks again guys, I think I have everything figured out at this point. I'm going to start with the Sony portable recorder, a windscreen for it, a mic stand, and the headphones. That's a pretty minimal investment to start out. I'll play around with it a bit, maybe try some sfx here and there, and do my rough voice recording with it so I can time the animatic. This will be a hefty part of the previs work, so I'll be able to save up a little more money by the time I will need to buy the mic + audio interface. That way I can also work on treating my studio with dampening foam and getting studio monitors placed before hand, and by the time I'm ready to have my VAs do their thing, I'll have the proper environment to do it in.

Noiz2: I will absolutely shoot you an email at that point. Thank you!
 
ZephyrStar said:
Does the Tascam provide phantom power for the mic?
Click to expand...

Good golly, you're right... the Tascam US100 doesn't have phantom power. Glad you caught that! Tascam's US-122MKII USB does have phantom, and it's $109, but the Presonus Audiobox USB is a better way to go.


ZephyrStar said:
100% there with you about studio setup as well, all this gear and time would go to waste without a properly treated room.
Click to expand...

Don't let room treatment be a stumbling block. Some people get amazing results by building a makeshift Ghost Reflexion Filter out of a cardboard box and cheap foam rubber.

I just read about animatics on Wikipedia. Cool stuff. I learned something too! I love how the quality of the dialog performance governs how the animation is created. ::sigh:: I wish non-animated film & video production shared this approach.
 
Ah hah, so I wasn't losing my mind :) I definitely think something like the Presonus is going to work wonders. I'm all about guerilla methods, so getting some cheap foam and dressing up the place is what I'll do. I'm pretty handy with building things. Thanks again!
 
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