Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Thanks Perrone. I learned a lot here.
Vegas user contemplating Edius
- Thread starter immusicman
- Start date
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Yes. But now I have to buy Edius and AE? can you even buy After Effects outside of the suite?
Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Im still using the old version. AE 6.5 since this is the only one that can use the storm card plug in to allow me to monitor my AE color grade on a CRT NTSC monitor. for some troublesome clips i have a synthetic aperture plug in in there for fixing problems.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
If you are so happy with Avid then why even bother? If Avid does all that you want and need....
The OP seems to have different needs so Edius might suit him/her. I love the speed of Edius, but have switched to CS4 for the better integration. We all have different needs and plenty of options to fill those needs.
:2vrolijk_08:
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
I'm not bothering. TommyK seemed to want to tell me that I had made a poor choice by not choosing Edius over Avid. So my question to him was to show me how Edius would solve the problems I have every week.
I agree. The OP would do well to evaluate their needs and purchase accordingly. This is what I did, and am happy. But if someone is going to tell me that I chose incorrectly, then I want to know why they feel that way.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
After re-reading the original post, I hope the user has made a decision. Clearly, there are a lot of options out there, especially for students. Edius brings a lot to to table for the price. In my view so does Avid. Edius will be a lot easier to learn. Avid is... well go see for yourself.
medeamajic
Carbonite Member
I think it is better to focus on what a product can do rather than what it can not do.
There are a lot of things the CS 4 package can offer that FCS can not but for some people FCS might be their best bet. Some people can get by with Windows Movie Maker.
Edius will work for editing Panasonic's P2 cards but if one wanted to use the Red One camera then Premiere might be the best bet. There is no right or wrong just different needs that need to be met.
If it was not for the tight integration of the Adobe products I might still be using Edius myself. I wanted to get into webdesign and graphic design and also continue to do video editing. CS4 was the best option for me but your needs will vary.
There are a lot of things the CS 4 package can offer that FCS can not but for some people FCS might be their best bet. Some people can get by with Windows Movie Maker.
Edius will work for editing Panasonic's P2 cards but if one wanted to use the Red One camera then Premiere might be the best bet. There is no right or wrong just different needs that need to be met.
If it was not for the tight integration of the Adobe products I might still be using Edius myself. I wanted to get into webdesign and graphic design and also continue to do video editing. CS4 was the best option for me but your needs will vary.
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
In an ideal world I agree. But in a world where your project will get accepted or rejected because of what your NLE or camera will or won't do... you had BETTER focus on whether or not it meets muster.
medeamajic
Carbonite Member
My point is that I do not use a Red One camera nor will I anytime soon. Premiere does a decent job with the Red One R3D codec but that is not why I swtiched to the CS4 Suite. The CS4 suite offers After Effects, Sound Booth, Encore and even Photoshop. Avid does not. Would Avid and Edius both work if I edit the Panasonic P2 cards? Yes they would. Avid and Edius may not offer a photo editing program but most users may not need it.
If we look at the CS4 Master Colletcion and what it can do compared to the Avid MC software it would win hands down although it may not be the best fit for everyones needs. In other words don't worry that Edius does not support the R3D codec if you use the P2 cards. Instead ask if Edius is a good solution for using the P2 cards?
I admit if someone thinks they may use a Red One camera within the next 8 months that would need to be factored into the equation.
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Completely understand. We all have different needs. It sounds as though you only have to deal with footage you shoot. That is a luxury many freelance editors and colorist don't have. They need to be able to accommodate as many sources as possible because you never know what will come through the door.
A couple of years ago, it was HDV and DV for me. Then XCam, then some RED, some Viper, some Cineform RAW (SI2K). Lately, it's been 5D footage. Fortunately, my work doesn't require the use of After Effects or Photoshop. I do have access to Photoshop if I need it though. The suite that comes with Avid (Boris RED) isn't too bad either.
I am quite pleased at this point that Ican accomodate practically any major format that comes through the door with the exception of ARRIRAW or Panalog footage. Turning down jobs because you can't handle the format.. sux.
Tommy K
Well-known member
I think you need to read my post again. You must be confusing me for someone else. I am not seeming to tell you anything, let alone that you made a poor choice using Avid lol. I don't like Avid... after spending a lot of money for it. I am happy that it meets your lofty goals. I'll be the first to tell you that you should use what fits your production needs. I know that I do. As another poster pointed out, I don't work with Red or Film and the OP probably won't either. I own Avid, and I own Edius. I choose to use Edius, it renders faster and IMHO Edius also has the better GUI and is more stable with my system. I use Edius because it suits my needs. I also use Sound Forge and After Effects because they suit my needs. It solves my problems that I have every week. I am sure that you are more than capable of figuring out if Edius will solve YOUR weekly problems. You certainly don't need me to educate you...
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I have to laugh at most of these type posts. for all of the people that answer, how many of you have all of these products that you compare or are you going on things you have heard? As i mentioned before, we have FCS, we have CS4, we have Media Composer, we have Edius. the only one of these NLE's that we don't have is Vegas. In our style of workflow, Edius is hands down the winner (Again FOR OUR WORKFLOW).
One should define whether you are comparing the NLE's or you are comparing entire workflows. If it is the first, then it is unfair to compare Edius (an NLE) to FCS or CS4 (both are suites containing multiple programs). If it is the second then you need to add the other programs to Edius that includes similar programs that are included in the other suites.
Edius is gaining huge roads in the broadcast area. I am presently in Chicago at HARPO studios training some editors on Edius. One of the comments after training today was "How soon do we get this in our suites" (they are using it in one area at the moment and not in another). They presently have Avid but want to change to Edius.
I would think that we would all know that we are better off to use the NLE that workks FOR YOUR OWN WORKFLOW. Different situations will require different solutions. I would change tomorrow if something would let me work faster, better and make more money for cheaper costs. That is not just lip service as our list of NLE's show that we have actually tried them. So far for us Edius is the winner.
AFA specific questions (sorry going from memory on this so don't shoot me if the question is wrong). I won't mention anything that is coming in the next version because every NLE could do that.
1. I don't think there is much doubt that Edius has the best P2 workflow around. Ask Panasonic
2. Edius is presently 8 bit
3. It will not accept Red footage.
4. It will not work with native Pro Tools. I do have to make a comment on Pro Tools (yes we have that also). this is the single biggest PITA finicky software to get to work correctly that I think I have encountered in the video/audio world
5. XDCAM, EX files edit instantly
6. Edius has several very good color grading options. Here is an older but still nice tutorial about one of them http://www.misterfrag.com/EdiusWBCC.wmv
One should define whether you are comparing the NLE's or you are comparing entire workflows. If it is the first, then it is unfair to compare Edius (an NLE) to FCS or CS4 (both are suites containing multiple programs). If it is the second then you need to add the other programs to Edius that includes similar programs that are included in the other suites.
Edius is gaining huge roads in the broadcast area. I am presently in Chicago at HARPO studios training some editors on Edius. One of the comments after training today was "How soon do we get this in our suites" (they are using it in one area at the moment and not in another). They presently have Avid but want to change to Edius.
I would think that we would all know that we are better off to use the NLE that workks FOR YOUR OWN WORKFLOW. Different situations will require different solutions. I would change tomorrow if something would let me work faster, better and make more money for cheaper costs. That is not just lip service as our list of NLE's show that we have actually tried them. So far for us Edius is the winner.
AFA specific questions (sorry going from memory on this so don't shoot me if the question is wrong). I won't mention anything that is coming in the next version because every NLE could do that.
1. I don't think there is much doubt that Edius has the best P2 workflow around. Ask Panasonic
2. Edius is presently 8 bit
3. It will not accept Red footage.
4. It will not work with native Pro Tools. I do have to make a comment on Pro Tools (yes we have that also). this is the single biggest PITA finicky software to get to work correctly that I think I have encountered in the video/audio world
5. XDCAM, EX files edit instantly
6. Edius has several very good color grading options. Here is an older but still nice tutorial about one of them http://www.misterfrag.com/EdiusWBCC.wmv
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PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
I think this is a magnificent point. I know in my own case, we have Premiere, Vegas, are testing Avid, and I have personally sat in FCP edit sessions and have played with it, but have not done an end to end workflow. My intent was to try Edius, but after some research I determined it was not the product for me at this time. I think actually using the products is an important part of determining how something may or may not work for you.
I don't think that anyone of reasonable intelligence would argue against Edius in a broadcast environment. It's certainly proven it's worth there, and TGV has been a major player in that arena for many, many years. I can remember seeing Grass Valley switchers at the local TV station where my buddy worked back in the early 90s. I'm sure they were around even before that, because that gear was by no means "new".
I am curious what Harpo felt Edius brought to the table that they didn't have in Avid. I am not working in a Broadcast production shop proper so this kind of thing intrigues me.
1. I'll need to check into that some. But I am aware that it has a fast P2 workflow.
2. This took it out of contention for me.
3. This was another major issue, but since I am keeping Vegas for this purpose, not a show stopper.
4. While I don't use Pro Tools and don't plan to, I've done 2 jobs in the past 12 months where collaboration with ProTools was needed and Vegas couldn't do it either. Not a position I wanted to be in again.
5. Vegas can't do this (sadly). Avid does. Premiere doesn't do it either.
6. That was a very nice, basic demo. And certainly primary and secondary color correction is all most people will need. What I'd like to see is Edius' ability to do more complex work. Like laying garbage mattes (for instance to NOT affect the color on that solar panel in the demo), or it's ability to match color shot to shot. Or to do automatic color matching.
For grins, I pulled a scene into Avid that I had previously color graded in Vegas. The automatic color match tools allowed me to re-color that scene in under 20 minutes. It had take the better part of 5 hours to do the same in Vegas. Multiply that over 500 scenes in a film, and the time and cost savings are tremendous.
I was really looking forward to putting Edius through it's paces but frankly, I hit a brick wall right out of the gate. It will be interesting to see how the program develops over the next year.
medeamajic
Carbonite Member
I have used Vegas, Avid, Edius, FCP and Premiere. I even had Pinnacle's/Avid's Liquid Edition. Edius is a good NLE but that is all it is unlike FCS and the CS4 suites. We have all stated one must invest in the editing platform that suits their needs best.
You claim that if we are going to include things like Phtoshop and AE in the CS4 Master Collection we must add those program to Edius. This reasoning fails because Edius will not integrate as well with AE, SoundBooth, Photoshop and Encore like Premiere Pro can. I used to use Edius but when I started to watch the videos at adobe.com I could not over look the tight integration of the Adobe Products. I like the autocomposer feature of SoundBooth as well as the ability to do good multi track recording. I admit you can get Smart Sound for Edius to some what match the auto compose feature of SoundBooth and Boris Effects to do motion graphics but to me that is just a real hacky way of doing things compared to what the CS 4 Master Collection can offer. If anyone thinks they might use motion graphics, do multi track audio recording and create real complex DVDs then using Edius as the foundation and buying 5 or 6 other programs to get all those features is not wise. I am not saying the Adobe CS 4 products are for everyone but trying to hack together a solution that Adobe offers using Edius as the foundation is not wise. It will cost more money and be a real hassle to get the same results.
For me and many others Edius is not the winner and I have used many NLE.
Arc, I don't know what to say to you to get you to compare apples to apples. If you don't see that trying to compare Edius to the suites that have multiple applications, is comparing apples to oranges, then there isn't much common ground. If you are talking about comparing it to Premiere then you are on equal footing.
If you want to compare WORKFLOWS (not NLEs) then I have to say that the couple of extra programs + Edius is still a faster and cheaper workflow for me. If CS4 works better for you, great, you should definitely use it, but try and be fair when making these comparisons.
If you want to compare WORKFLOWS (not NLEs) then I have to say that the couple of extra programs + Edius is still a faster and cheaper workflow for me. If CS4 works better for you, great, you should definitely use it, but try and be fair when making these comparisons.
medeamajic
Carbonite Member
You can try to compare Edius to Premiere Pro but keep in mind that Premiere Pro is bundled with Encore and On Location. Having stated the above, I am not comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges. I am merely pointing out a serious flaw in your prior post. You implied that you need only buy AE, Photoshop and Encore to make Edius compete with the CS 4 Production Premium and that logic fails because you will not have the tight integration. If that were the case I would still be using Edius. If you do not do audio recording and have no need for highend motion graphics then Edius might fit the bill and no one has said other wise. On the other hand you have implied that using Edius with Boris FX, Pro Tools and DVD Factory will be as effective as the CS 4 Production Premium when I know it will not. I know people that use Edius with Encore and even Adobe's Audition but it is not as good as using them with Premiere Pro.
It is indeed up to the user to decide if they will need multi-track audio recording, motion graphics or even photo editing software. If the asnwer is yes than I can not in good faith recomend Edius. I have however recomended Edius many times depending on the user's needs.
immusicman
Active member
Lots of nice comparisons and plenty to learn in this thread. Thank you all for your comments. I ended up bargaining with sony and getting the upgrade to 9c vegas and Raylight software by DVfilms gave me a 50.00 dollar rebate which helped. So I kept my vegas software..only because it is what I am most familiar with and it has worked well for me in the past. With that said, I hope I will be happy with Vegas and raylight editing P2 material. It seems to work just fine but I have not gotten serious with anything yet. If it doesn't work out, I will purchase something different. I have an idea what direction I would go after reading some posts here! Thanks again guys..I really appreciate it.
J
J
medeamajic
Carbonite Member
Sounds like you got a good deal on the software.
Only you will know what will work best for your needs. I am not a fan of the Vegas GUI but others love it. I admit Vegas can do some cool things and it will fit the bill for many projects.
Only you will know what will work best for your needs. I am not a fan of the Vegas GUI but others love it. I admit Vegas can do some cool things and it will fit the bill for many projects.
Let me correct/expand on my comment about working with Pro Tools. It will work with AAF export. I don't know if that is what you mean but there is an avenue there for working together.
I have both Edius and Avid, love them both, each one has a better use than the other for certain things, with Edius it's speed for fast simple non broadcast projects for me. With Avid it's better for big broadcast projects. Titles, transitions, effects, CC are so much better in Avid (quality wise). Edius is fast and simple, I do use it a lot but it's Avid for large commercial projects. I'm not saying Avid is slow, it's just more complicated than Edius so it takes me longer to edit with it, I know pros who can fly on Avids, it's keyboard editing style takes some getting use to but when you know it well it's very, very fast (from what I have seen).
pjsssss,
What is HARPO studios using Edius for? In house training/managment videos?
pjsssss,
What is HARPO studios using Edius for? In house training/managment videos?