Vegas keeps crashing when I try to render :(

A

altar

Active member
Hi all,
I shot in 1920x1080 with a 550d and then using Mpeg Streamclip I converted with Avid DNxHD codec leaving the frame size of 1920x1080 unscaled to edit in Vegas.
Now I'm trying to render for Vimeo (or Youtube) following the instructions found in this post of the Vimeo forum , but Vegas keeps crashing seconds after the rendering begins.
I noticed that when I select the Sony AVC and click on custom template, I don't have the same options as this post describes (the post is a year old). The post says to choose AVC in the format of teh video tab, but I have only AVCHD. Also, the post says to choose a custom frame size of Width: 1280 Height: 720, but I can't choose custom, only between 1920x1080 and 1440x1080.

Any idea why I am crashing? I'm a little disappointed since it's my first try at editing...
Or if someone has other rendering options to offer...
Thanks for your help
 
Sorry
Vegas Pro Version 9.0e 64bit
Windows 7 Home Premium
Dell Inspiron 580 Intel Core i5 750 at 2.67 GHz with 6GB of RAM
 
The guide you are following on Vimeo is written for the consumer version of Vegas. Your pro version wasn't even out when that article was written.

Totally different product.

Ok, that aside, you should be able to do what it is you're trying to do. What error do you get when rendering stops? Do you have a lot of effects applied to the clips? How is your dynamic RAM set? There's numerous things that can cause this to fail, and we'll need to drill down into them a bit.

BTW, I have the same properties available as you from the Sony AVC template, there is nothing wrong with your software.
 
Thanks for your help Perrone,
I have virtually no fx in this clip: 4 minutes with just fade in/outs, a volume envelope, a mp3 music file, two more video tracks for the small titles... nothing really
The error message is not specific (my Windows is Korean, I live here), just "Vegas has to shut down, Windows will try and analyze why" or something like that.
In my preferences, the Dynamic Ram preview max is set to 350 of a max available of 5079

As you said the post I read is old so I should try other settings to see what happens.
 
Also, set that dynamic RAM to zero for the render and see if it helps. Usually that only helps when Vegas says it has a low memory condition, but it won't hurt to try anyway.
 
Should I partition my drive to render on a different drive than the source files?
I read a very old post on the Vimeo Forums but the problem seems very similar.

Update: I found this, but I don't know what it means... "Please note that if you are getting crashes during rendering, you must go to Vegas’ Settings, click the video tab and lower the number of threads to “1″".
What does " lower the number of threads to “1″" mean? What menu is he talking about?
Apparently, crashes with AVCHD are common (!?)
 
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Crashes with AVCHD on the timeline are common. I don't get any when I am simply rendering to that format.

Partitioning a drive doesn't do anything. A different physical drive would help in certain cases, but doubtful in this one.

Render to a different format. Like WMV and lets see if it still crashes.
 
Are you using Avid DXNHD quicktimes? The quicktimes maybe what is to blame if you have a lot of them in the project. I've run into the same problem before with a long project of Quicktimes. I had to render them as 1 min blocks.

Try this: Save As a backup copy of your project. Then with that new copy, delete half of the clips on the timeline and remove unused clips from the project. Then try exporting to Uncompressed AVI or QT. You may have to cut down the project size to 1 minute chunks.

DVFilm Epic I gives more stability with Quicktimes in Vegas 9e, but you should be able to get you final project out as smaller rendered pieces if its the quicktimes to blame.

Hope this helps,
Andy
 
It's rendering now in WMV. I didn't modify the settings except smoothness at 100%.
I noticed that the frame size setting was 1440, not 1920, is that normal?
And what is the difference in the output between WMV and AVCHD?
 
Andy Olson said:
Are you using Avid DXNHD quicktimes?
Click to expand...
Yes, I converted all the mov files from the 550d to Avid DXNHD quicktimes for editing. I thought that was the right thing to do!? I read that otherwise Vegas wouldn't be able to preview in real time smoothly with the mov files
 
Altar,

It seems as if you are rather new to this.

This is a VERY complex issue, at least in regards to transcoding your camera files to something else. Particularly in Vegas which is exceptionally picky about what is placed on the timeline.

Here's the scoop in a nutshell:

When dealing with video files, there are two major factors involved. A "container" and a "codec". Think of it like a glass, and what you pour in that glass.

There are several popular containers for video files. Some of the more common ones are .MOV, .AVI, .MPG, .WMV. Inside these containers can be placed a huge variety of video files compressed to VERY specific parameters. Not all containers can hold all codecs. For instance, the WMV container can only contain ONE type of compressed video type. Whereas a container like .MOV or .AVI can hold 50-100 types each.

Vegas, was built to be used with .AVI types. It prefers that type. It can also effectively use several other container types. However, using a .MOV container on the Vegas timeline, regardless of what is INSIDE that .MOV is tricky and challenging for Vegas. The .MOV container originates from Apple computers, and as such compatibility is sometimes an issue. This is not just a Vegas issue, but a PC issue in general. Some programs handle .MOV better than others.

The DNxHD codec is excellent. But the free implementation of it on the PC puts in inside a .MOV container. So in terms of Vegas, you get the good with the bad. An EXCELLENT codec, inside a problematic container. You may be asking why an excellent codec inside an .AVI container isn't recommended. The truth is, until very recently, they were very rare, and seldom free. A few of us did the early work on trying to make DNxHD viable in Vegas and it works in most cases, and works pretty well. But it's far from perfect.

At this point, I tend to recommend Vegas users use the Matrox VfW codecs. It's an excellent codec for editing, and the quality is very high. It has some drawbacks in comparison to DNxHD, but it's still very good. And free.

There is no perfect solution, and sadly, you've stumbled into one of Vegas' Achilles heels.
 
altar said:
It's rendering now in WMV. I didn't modify the settings except smoothness at 100%.
I noticed that the frame size setting was 1440, not 1920, is that normal?
And what is the difference in the output between WMV and AVCHD?
Click to expand...

Frame size should NOT be 1440. It needs to be set to match your file exactly. The 1440 setting is for HDV which your camera doesn't shoot.

WMV and AVCHD use differing compression to arrive at a very similar quality file. They are rivals in the world of video compression. Both are used for everything from web video, to Hollywood BluRay compression, so if you get your settings done properly, you needn't worry about the quality.
 
PerroneFord said:
you've stumbled into one of Vegas' Achilles heels.
Click to expand...
At the very first step, now how's that!

I read several about setting the "number of threads to 1" solving the problem.
I can't find that setting, in which menu is it?


P.S. So you think I shouldn't convert the raw files in DNxHD before editing? What can I use to convert the files in Matrox VfW?
And 1920x1080 wasn't in the WMV dropdown options, the maximum was 1440.
 
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altar said:
At the very first step, now how's that!
Click to expand...

Pretty common for Vegas. Once you step away from the world of SD and HDV, Vegas is going to demand numerous workarounds no matter what the workflow or camera. There is an entire library of workaround for doing HD video in this program.

altar said:
I read several about setting the "number of threads to 1" solving the problem.
I can't find that setting, in which menu is it?
Click to expand...

The setting is directly below where you set dynamic RAM. I've never changed my render threads setting, and I don't have the problems you are seeing. But it couldn't hurt to try it.

altar said:
P.S. So you think I shouldn't convert the raw files in DNxHD before editing? What can I use to convert the files in Matrox VfW?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you shouldn't convert to DNxHD. What I am saying is that no matter WHAT you convert to, you are going to have issues of some kind or another. If you continue to use the program, be prepared for that and learn which workaround apply based on what workflow you choose.

I use DNxHD a lot, and like it very much. It solves numerous issues I have including my need to move stuff back and forth to Apple machines. However, that choice also means that I know I will not get real-time playback inside Vegas. That is a choice I am willing to live with. Others will not be willing to make that choice.

These constant workarounds, and a few other issues, are the reason I eventually had to leave Vegas. It was just too much to put up with. But I suspect that you and I have somewhat different needs when it comes to editing. At least for now. So maybe Vegas will work out ok for you.
 
Avid DXNhd quicktimes are a good to possibly finish with, but editing with them in Vegas causes problems because of the quicktime stability issues.

Setting the Dynamic Ram preview to 0 and the number of render threads to 1 is usually always a good step with Vegas.

altar said:
And 1920x1080 wasn't in the WMV dropdown options, the maximum was 1440.
Click to expand...

Select the 1440 template in the dropdown options, but then select the Custom button to the right and set the frame size to 1920x1080 and aspect ratio Square pixels.
 
2 last questions:
If I convert the raw files for editing using Matrox VfW codec, what's the best container to put it in?
And finally, what should I be rendering into for posting on sites like Vimeo?
 
altar said:
2 last questions:
If I convert the raw files for editing using Matrox VfW codec, what's the best container to put it in?
Click to expand...

It is only available for the AVI container. There are numerous conversion programs to use. I use Prism Video Converter. It's free.

http://www.nchsoftware.com/prism/prismsetup.exe

You'll also have to download the Matrox Codec.

http://www.matrox.com/video/en/support/windows/vfw_software_codecs/downloads/softwares/version1.0/

altar said:
And finally, what should I be rendering into for posting on sites like Vimeo?
Click to expand...

I use AVC or WMV. I use Vimeo a lot less these days though.
 
Thanks a lot for your advice. Same for Andy.
Perrone, do you use another video hosting service, or do you just post less videos?
 
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