Vegas and 24p in PAL land
- Thread starter Stelvium
- Start date
I'm guessing you might be setting your project properties to the render settings? It needs to be to the footage, then Vegas handles the render OK. You might also get some jitter from the Vegas downsizing codecs. Despite the craze, unless you intend to reverse telecine your footage, there is very little point in ever shooting 24p, it doesn't give you a film look, just a juddery look with motion.
If you're trying to make a PAL DVD (25.000) with 24p footage, you're going to have problems. The conversion will result in exactly the behavior you're seeing.
I would make a 24p DVD out of it (which will be an NTSC-based DVD). Any computer and almost every PAL DVD player can play it.
I would make a 24p DVD out of it (which will be an NTSC-based DVD). Any computer and almost every PAL DVD player can play it.
Hi Stelvium, I think you may have misunderstood me. Your Project properties need to match your footage. Do what the prompt says when you load your footage or click the little Match Media video settings in project properties. That way, Vegas does the right thing (makes your DVD footage run around 4% faster, which you don't notice, and also adjusts the audio), other way, i.e. project properties set to 25 fps with disable resample (which you're doing right), it doubles a frame every second, which with motion you do notice. Rendering to NTSC adds pulldown so it's also smooth at 59.94i, but you lose a lot of the PAL resolution.
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No, you should render to DVD Architect 24p DVD.
Possible small problem with this advice being there's no 24p project option in DVDA (although DVDA handles 24p footage fine). I also didn't get David's earlier "If you're trying to make a PAL DVD (25.000) with 24p footage, you're going to have problems." You shouldn't have problems - Hollywood movies transferred to PAL DVD to the rest of the world looks a whole better than the weird cadence and lower resolution of NTSC.
There's other possible reasons for "judder" - shooting 24p with shutter speeds over 1/100 sec, for example, but this should be evident in your original footage. Adding some motion blur might help. Otherwise, best you can do is set your project properties to 24p, render to PAL and if it still looks more juddery try reversing the field order.
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That's because DVDs are not inherently any frame rate. The frame rate is in the file, not a setting of the DVD. Many DVDs have both 24p material and 60i (NTSC) material on the same disc.
But (Video) DVDs do have base standards, being NTSC ("29.97") or PAL, and you can't use NTSC-based frame rate files (60i, 30p, 24p) on a PAL-based ("25.000") DVD. It will have to be re-rendered to PAL.
Yes, through high-end, hardware-based encoding, of which neither Vegas nor DVD Architect (nor most any other software solution) are capable. The problems in this thread deal with Vegas and what to do within that environment, not "Hollywood."
Keep in mind as well that much 24 fps material which is converted to PAL is sped up by about 4%, which includes the sound, so it's it's pitched slightly higher than the original. You may have never noticed it if all you've seen is PAL.
The difference in "cadence" between 24p and 25p is negligible to the point of being indistinguishable. The difference in cadence between 60i and 50i is likewise negligible to the point of being indistinguishable. The apparent resolution difference is greater, but it's only about a 15% difference.
There is no field order with progressive footage. The whole point of it being progressive is that there are no fields.
The problem with converting 24p material to 25p, while keeping real-time playback speed (not speeding it up), is that there simply is not enough difference between 24p and 25p to set up a smooth pulldown pattern for repeating frames. It's only a difference of one frame per second, so you either repeat one frame, which causes a lag every single second, or you resample the footage to blend frames, which likewise causes problems.
This is true whether you convert to 25p or 50i.
As I said, high-end hardware conversions employ processors, processES, and very complex pulldown patterns which allow for a better conversion, and those options are not available to Vegas, DVD Arthitect, or most any software application.
So, your best bet with Vegas and 24p material is to make a 24p DVD and let the DVD player, with its firmware, make the conversion for you.
Of course, the best thing to do, period, in PAL land, is to shoot 25p instead of 24p.
Hallo Dave,
thank you for helping me to solve this issue with 24 p. Once i matched the properties i rendered the final project in 24p NTSC widescreen.The result is that the dvd has this "judder (i hope this is is the term )effect" when there are pan moves of a camera or when a person being interviewed shakes his head or move his hands.I rendered in DVDARCH then put it on a dvd reader but the result is not good unfortunately.
You right, in Pal land s better to shoot in 25p but unfortunately wht is done is done
Thank you so much for the time and for the great help!
thank you for helping me to solve this issue with 24 p. Once i matched the properties i rendered the final project in 24p NTSC widescreen.The result is that the dvd has this "judder (i hope this is is the term )effect" when there are pan moves of a camera or when a person being interviewed shakes his head or move his hands.I rendered in DVDARCH then put it on a dvd reader but the result is not good unfortunately.
You right, in Pal land s better to shoot in 25p but unfortunately wht is done is done
Thank you so much for the time and for the great help!
OK, as nothing else is working, try this:
Enable resampling.
Choose the DVD Architect 24p DVD preset and then change the frame rate to 25.000.
See what the video plays like on the computer. If it's acceptable, then it might be OK on a PAL DVD.
But I suspect you'll still be seeing problems.
Enable resampling.
Choose the DVD Architect 24p DVD preset and then change the frame rate to 25.000.
See what the video plays like on the computer. If it's acceptable, then it might be OK on a PAL DVD.
But I suspect you'll still be seeing problems.