VANCOUVER vs. TORONTO

clumsy_cool

clumsy_cool

Well-known member
Alright guys and girls, I know that this subject keeps popping back up like a groundhog, but this isn't a vague question like; "Is film school worth it?"

Ok, here's the question, I have already decided I am going to a Film School, and I have visited both VFS and The Toronto Film School. Any thoughts on which one is more career oriented ?

I'm down to earth and I'm not expecting to become director right after. I just wanna make sure I'm not the bum on the street :P. So I've heard a million times that it's what you put it that counts, ya ya I know I am well aware. My question is where is the market better for new graduates ? This is what I've observed :

VFS:
- Nice School, but something fishy about admission and tuition procedures
- From what I've heard, Vancouver is more of The U.S's *****, they just come here to shoot for cheap, that doesn't really open doors for new filmmakers (I could be wrong)
- VFS doesn't seem to have a concrete job placement, you get access to a web site WOW !!

Toronto Film School:
- Better fascilites, BUT..... WHAT ? no DVX, they run of XL2 and sony's ewwww
- Toronto seems more in the middle of CANADIAN things, now I know canada doesn't compare to the U.S, but it seems more realistic to get a job here if your from Canada (comercials, music videos, TV series,etc...).
- Job placement seems good, there not spoon feeding you or anything, BUT they assist you til you find something.

Money isn't a factor since both schools are about 3 000$ different from each other. Anways, hope this made sense, looking forward to hearing what you smart people have to say :P
 
Toronto film school is a joke.. but you hit a nail on the head with VFS.. they are sketchy.. i never went to VFS, but got screwed around by the administration over a favour i was gonna do for them... Kevin Smith dropped out of there for a reason lol.

Its kinda a whole NY vs. LA thing.. NY (and Toronto) is a nice town, but nothing shoots there. LA (and Vancouver) has no winter, lots of talent and lots of work.

I just moved to Los Angeles myself, but for the last 10 years i lived in Vancouver. About 5 years ago i thought about the whole toronto thing, and after a few weeks in Toronto i crossed it off. Toronto is an incredibly ugly city.. and it gets cold as hell in the winter time. Vancouver is a very busy film town, but as the Canadian dollar keeps rising towards the US dollar, U.S production in both cities will go down. And yes.. Vancouver is Los Angeles cheap hooker girlfriend.. but Toronto is NY's. I imagine you want to work on US movies though right? Last time i checked not very many good Canadian films, nor Canadian TV came out of Canada.
 
I sort of took the other way around from Jarred. I was from Toronto and went to Ryerson...it was a 4 year program and I got hired out of the school in my second year...never looked back.
Did commercials in Toronto for 4 years then moved to Vancouver...great city.

If I had a choice I would spend some money and do some AFI/USC week long courses, buy a HVX editing gear and go.

"you are always going to be somebodies *****"
 
ya, I would like too, I'm just very down to earth, and I'l only looking one step ahead hoping to just at least get a foot in the door, being a musician I actualy really love making music videos, and that is why I wouldn't mind doing that for awhile, and I'm guessing it's easier to get connections once your actualy in the industry. I'm really getting a headache, because to me Toronto has more music videos, commericlals, and Canadian films (like Resident Evil) then Vancouver. I've spent way too much money on traveling and visiting schools, I need to pick one, and US is out of the question (Full Sail, cost like 80 000$ ???? WOW). I 've been doing video for a at least 4-5 years and I do think I need a structured learning enviroment. Cant I just Pay someone 40 000$ to take me as an apprentice for a year !!!! I was sooo do that.
 
Jarred Land said:
Toronto film school is a joke.. but you hit a nail on the head with VFS.. they are sketchy.. i never went to VFS, but got screwed around by the administration over a favour i was gonna do for them... Kevin Smith dropped out of there for a reason lol.

Its kinda a whole NY vs. LA thing.. NY (and Toronto) is a nice town, but nothing shoots there. LA (and Vancouver) has no winter, lots of talent and lots of work.

I just moved to Los Angeles myself, but for the last 10 years i lived in Vancouver. About 5 years ago i thought about the whole toronto thing, and after a few weeks in Toronto i crossed it off. Toronto is an incredibly ugly city.. and it gets cold as hell in the winter time. Vancouver is a very busy film town, but as the Canadian dollar keeps rising towards the US dollar, U.S production in both cities will go down. And yes.. Vancouver is Los Angeles cheap hooker girlfriend.. but Toronto is NY's. I imagine you want to work on US movies though right? Last time i checked not very many good Canadian films, nor Canadian TV came out of Canada.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

My plan is to move to New York (I don't want to get shot in LA).
 
ya I have no doupt about the animation at VFS, but it's also less of a gamble since everyone is sticking computer stuff in there movies. so any pointers on finding an internship someplace ? I met the producer (or assitant) from Supernatural when I visited Vancouver and he told me anyone will take your money for an internship. I feel it's the only way to find a job, it's the only way to prove your hard working.
 
AFI and USC are in an entire different league than VFS and TFS.. if you could do that it would most likely be a way better experience.

As for Music Videos.. Vancouver has a very very large music video infastructure. Resident Evil wasn't a canadian film... not even close, it was just a location.

If you have 40k you may want to explore financing your own film as a producer, and hire professional crew and learn off them.. hands on.
 
I'm based on the west coast, in Victoria of all places. To be honest, Film school is a huge waste of money all together. Ask anybody who works in the industry, if you want to make movies, then make movies and don't let others teach you how they would do it. Personally I'd get set up with some gear, and try to get on a few real productions to see how it works, its a great way to make money and all of your questions can be answered by technicians in all fields. Get books on Cinematography, and whatever else you can, and learn the technical side of it, Nobody wants just a director anymore, the more you can do the better.

Anyway, good luck
 
yeah I know what you mean indosmoke, I just know that one year of school cant be that much of a waste of time, and 30 000$ dollars, is only the price of a car . I'm from Ottawa , soooo there's nothing here. I have the whole shabang, I spent about 14 000$ on equipement and books in the past year, and still I would like to learn the standards and just have that stupid piece of paper. I guess there's nothing worth it in Canada lol. I'l go find myself a sugar Daddy. :P jk
 
I always seem to be on the wrong side of this issue on this forum, but I think the best thing you can do is go to school. I don't know much about the Toronto Film School or VFS but I used to be an executive for a 3D developer headquartered in Toronto and have donated millions worth of SGI equipment, software and film scanners to schools like CSUC, UCSB and Savannah College of Art and design. There are quite a few really good schools other than the usual suspects, USC, UCLA, Full Sail, AFI etc.., that aren't that expensive.

If you can stick school out you're in a much better position to make significantly more money, and before you say it isn't about the money I don't know any poor succesful film makers. I know I'll get slammed for that but its a really competitive industry that is going through some significant changes so its going to be a lot tougher.

Anyway, don't give up on going to school.
 
If a career is what you are looking for check out Confederation College. Yes it is in Thunder Bay, but the folks who run the program work Miracles. The classes are small, they have great gear, and they want you to be working when you get out of school. Everybody gets the opportunity to make a film their second year (two year program). I can not say enough about the program. It is inexpensive as well. The only downside is Thunder Bay. I have gone back in recent years to guest lecture. You will love the program..
 
Interesting debate. I'm from BC and worked in film in Vancouver before moving a long way away, to Toronto. And as far as "the industry" is concerned, it's all in Toronto. Speaking of the Canadian independent filmmaking industry that is. Lots of American stuff gets shot in Vancouver (which is driven creatively by L.A. and not by Canadians), but for Canadian stuff (albeit not often very good, cf. Jared's comment) it really happens in Toronto. There's just so much going on in terms of arts and culture and film in Toronto compared to Vancouver. And I must say, I had the typical Westerner's prejudice against Toronto...BEFORE I moved here: it's actually a vibrant, awesome and yes, even beautiful city. Where'd you hang out, Jared? Scarborough? ;-) That would be like describing Vancouver based on hanging out in the middle of Richmond (B.C.). Anyway, unless Vancouver gets a life, I just don't think there's a very interesting indigenous (i.e., Canadian) film industry happening there. And the town bores me to tears.

As for the schools, I would be very wary of either VFS or the Toronto Film School. There are other really valuable and less expensive ways of getting THE SAME THING. In Toronto, George Brown College has an amazing continuing education program in film. After you learn the ropes, it's more about self-discovery and making connections anyhow. And Toronto is a great place to do that when so many Canadian indie filmmakers are here, from the new ones to the pros (Egoyan and Cronenberg and Jewison and McKellar, etc. all live and film here). Then, you could apply to a place like the Canadian Film Centre, which is MUCH LESS expensive and far more reputable and worthwhile than VFS or TFS.

(One last thing: Canadian film is getting so much better. And there's a lot of room for creative, inspired filmmakers to kick it up another notch. Check out films like C.R.A.Z.Y., It's All Gone Pete Tong, and The Dark Hours--super cool film shot at the Canadian Film Centre...and I mean really really cool.)
 
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I might be really dumb , BUT, continuing education , what does that mean ? Does it mean you need to study in a normal program for 2 years then go to continuing studies ?
 
Oh, "continuing education" just means it's not a degree program. They do offer a certificate, mind you. But basically, it's just a program where you take courses when you want, without any view to getting a "post-secondary degree." Night school courses, etc. And I think that film school can be really, really valuable if you find the right one. Even if it's just to connect with other like-minded people and encourage you to stretch your talents.
 
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sean90291 said:
As for the schools, I would be very wary of either VFS or the Toronto Film School. There are other really valuable and less expensive ways of getting THE SAME THING. In Toronto, George Brown College has an amazing continuing education program in film. After you learn the ropes, it's more about self-discovery and making connections anyhow. And Toronto is a great place to do that when so many Canadian indie filmmakers are here, from the new ones to the pros (Egoyan and Cronenberg and Jewison and McKellar, etc. all live and film here). Then, you could apply to a place like the Canadian Film Centre, which is MUCH LESS expensive and far more reputable and worthwhile than VFS or TFS.
Click to expand...

So George Brown College is good ? seems pretty Slim. :S
 
It's NOT an intensive, full-time program. It's an alternative if you want to get into it without quitting your job and without committing tens of thousands of dollars. It's basically just night school classes with some really really talented professors, and some really interesting students.

I mean, if you already have your own HVX200...it might be a way to get yourself into making films without a full-time film programme. But if you absolutely want a full-time film school with a degree then it's not the one. What do you want to get out of a film school?
 
Well, I tend to start bad habbits quickly which is why I Want to learn in a structured enviroment, without too much theory. Carleton University was a waste of time. To be honest I have all this equipement at home, and I find myself with no content to film. I have scripts , I've made music videos , but there's no one willing to spend alot of time on it in Ottawa, (shocker eh ?) I just want an opportunity to start working in a team. Like I've started with some Carleton students a Video Production Company, and I'm the only one into it, (www.forevertomorrow.net) :S. I wanna venture someplace where video production companies are comon, I'm not talking about a big motion picture as soon as I get there, I actualy wouldn't mind doing small things here and there that have a decent pay (comercials...) anyways I guess I'm just looking for a reason to peace out of Ottawa, and meet people. I know School is expensive, I just think it would be a good quick start.
 
I went to film school in BC, and learned a ton after not really having much experience ( I know the prices have gone up considerably since) so it's really your preference.... If you already have a descent understanding of filmmaking you might find it annoying ( it'd be like going back to kindergarden ) you'd have to waid threw all the learning that you've already done... and I know lot's of people that I went to school with that were people you'd say when you were there ( that guy... nothing's going to stand in front of him getting what he want's in the industry) and now he's given up and changing career's..... serious dedication , experience and knowing people goes a long way..... there's something to be said about just going out at shooting and shooting and getting better every day than sitting around cause it seem's PC to go to school. P.S. nobody will every care if you have a degree or diploma from VFS or Toronto.

Edit: If you have $40K move to one of the bigger centre's and meet people, try hanging out with acting groups or going to local film clubs
 
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