Using MixPre and R-44

L

linyingyen

Member
Hi everyone, I know the questions below might be stupid, but I have searched the forum and Google, but came up with nothing.

1. I heard it was impossible to bypass R-44's preamps, so is it pointless to use MixPre on the R-44?
2. If I set the R-44's sensitivity to +4, am I still using its preamps?
3. MixPre's output should be +4, correct?
4. If Mixpre's line-out is +4, why is it when I set R-44's sensitivity to +4, and with MixPre's 1KHZ Tone switched on (at 0db), why is R-44's level at around -15db? Shouldn't R-44 be reading the same 0db as well?
5. Should I make mixer's 0db level match 0db on the recorder? Or should I make mixer's 0db match maybe 12-6db on the recorder to leave headroom?
6. Even with MixPre's limiter on, it is still possible to clip the R-44, correct?


Thanks in advance for making my head not explode.



Cheers,


Lin
 
1 absolutely not. With the amplification level set low you can get very clean sound with a Mixpre.
2 see 1

waaa so many numbers. just plug the two together and try around. I can assure you you'll get great results with that combo. it's easy to get lost in all those numbers. Listen with your ears and look at the levels and you'll be good, I promise. I own an R-44 and an older mono mixer that has preamps of similar quality to a Mixpre, so I know what I write about here.
 
When you calibrate with the MixPre and any recorder/camera, you turn on the tone on the MixPre. Then you adjust the recording level on whatever recording device to -20db. Then you are using it in a way that you are virtually unclippable.

Recording with the R-44. Leave the inner level knob at 12:00 - straight up. Turning it up is only digitally increasing the gain, and does nothing but add noise. Use the outer "Trim" knob to set the level. When recording line out from something turn the trim down. Depending on the line out level, for +10db turn the trim all the way down.
 
To Chadfish:


Thanks for the answer.
But my question is if the tone is pumping out at 0db at +4 line-out.
And the R-44 is taking in +4 line-in, why isn't the level on R-44 also reading 0db? but around -20db?

If I pump up the sensitivity on the R-44, say -2 or -6db. Aren't I using the R-44's preamp?
If I am using R-44's preamp, isn't it defeating the purpose to have the clean preamp of the MixPre?


Thanks for your insight.
 
The MixPre tone is pumping out at -20db. Unity gain on the R-44 is with both the trim and level knobs at 12:00. Turning down the trim from there is going closer to line level, and lowering the hiss with every click. The loud signal from the MixPre lets you turn down the trim and you get a cleaner recording. It ain't too complex. Less recorder gain always means less noise.
 
You have hit on a complicated subject.

First dB is meaningless with out a reference. dBu is not the same as dBv or dBfs etc.

So the MixPre is measuring in dBu the R44 is probably measuring in dBfs. When the MixPre hits 0dBu it still has arounf 26dB to go before it clips. If the R44 is dBfs then 0 is all she wrote. So you would want to set the R44 to a level that gives you enough "head room" so you don't clip.

The standard is to out put tone at -20 (dBfs) so that is where you would set the R44.

THe limiters on the MixPre out of the box seem set to work at about that level. I did some tests to determine where I need to set my recorder so that it's "clip proof" when the MixPre's limiters are on and then I use the tone to set that up whenever I go recording things where clipping might be an issue.

linyingyen said:
To Chadfish:


Thanks for the answer.
But my question is if the tone is pumping out at 0db at +4 line-out.
And the R-44 is taking in +4 line-in, why isn't the level on R-44 also reading 0db? but around -20db?

If I pump up the sensitivity on the R-44, say -2 or -6db. Aren't I using the R-44's preamp?
If I am using R-44's preamp, isn't it defeating the purpose to have the clean preamp of the MixPre?


Thanks for your insight.
Click to expand...
 
linyingyen said:
If I pump up the sensitivity on the R-44, say -2 or -6db. Aren't I using the R-44's preamp?
If I am using R-44's preamp, isn't it defeating the purpose to have the clean preamp of the MixPre?
Click to expand...

You are probably always going through it's preamp unless there is a separate line in. Noisy preamps as a rule get noisy when they are amplifying. If you can crank the trim down on the preamp section low enough to accept a line in then the preamp isn't doing any amplifying and so is adding as little noise as possible.

Now it's true that if the audio section is just very noisy then you will still get some noise, but usually the problem is how clean the gain is not how constantly noisy it is.

But there are reasons other than the very nice and quiet mic pres for using the MixPre. Tone is nice, a slate mic is sometimes very useful, full 48V phantom is important sometimes, bright meters are Very nice and it has fantastic limiters.
 
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