Using HPX-250 as a 2-track audio recorder - good alternative to field recorder?

L

lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com

Well-known member
With limited budget and cut down on equipment transport, I'm considering using the Panasonic HPX-250 as a 2-track audio recorder over the industry standard Sound Devices 4-track recorder that costs almost the same as the HPX-250. The HPX-250 has SMPTE i/o via BNC and can easily sync to other 2/3" cams. It can also serve as a good B&C camera side angle camera. Has anybody done this and would even consider using it if there's no stand alone audio recorder available?
 
In the absence of something else dedicated to sound, I personally would be quite happy - assuming you feed it good quality audio. There's history of doing this right back to betamax days with the F1. The audio inputs are not the quietist around but perfectly functional.
 
It's interesting…I've thought about this from time to time, and I think it's a pretty damn good idea. Take a camera like the XF100 (or similar) that has XLR inputs and good audio circuitry. Feed it a good signal from a quality microphone. And you've got both a second camera (if needed) and an audio recorder.
 
I'll be recording a Japanese Taiko outdoor dance performance with about 6-10 performers on stage. Will be doing a perimeter miking (all 5 corners covered) with two AKG Perception 170s w/ -20 dB pad on the HPX-250. The other 3 tracks will be with the Schoeps CMIT5U, AKG 414 ULS, and another AKG Perception 170 on the drum to the HPX3100 w/ 24-bit recording. This will give me a total of 5 tracks and a B-angle footage on the HPX250 and all will be synced via FREE RUN TC on both 1/3" and 2/3" cams. First attempt was a disaster when tried to save time by sending the signal wirelessly on the average Sennheiseiser G3. It's not the best wireless and the sound quality is pretty distorted and not as clean. The on-camera shotgun actually sounded better than the wireless mic. But unfortunately the on-camera mic is way too far from the source (about 300 feet) and picks up ambient noise and people chattering. This is the chance for me to do it right once and for all with good mics and wired XLR - no more wireless connectivity.

I don't have much experience w/ the AKG Perception as it's just purchased. They're fairly cheap ($100) compared to the Schoeps and AKG 414. But the ad claims to be able to record high pressure instrument pretty well.

Should I leave AGC off or ON for the camcorders? There will be heavy drum spike and the sound will exceed 100 dB.
 
Last edited:
Sort of.

I record to cam for dialogue whenever possible, however, a cam by itself doesn't offer many of the needed features for better quality audio including easy level control, good limiters, good metering, better preamps, etc. So a cam works ok as an audio bit bucket at 16/48, that's about all it offers. Add a mixer in front of the cam and go line in, and that makes it much more viable.

Grant
 
The ideal recorder of my personal pref is the Sound Devices 788T. Costs about the same as the HPX-250. This 8-track beauty will serve nicely in virtually all audio recording environments. Will have to sacrifice a bit of audio quality for this particular shoot due to budget constraints. Nevertheless, I'm anxious to hear how the HPX-250 performs as an audio only recorder with CH1 (Schoeps CMIT5U), CH2 (AKG 414 XL2), CH3-CH4 (HPX250's on-cam stereo mics as ultimate backup or a light ambient mix if necessary). Will go to manual and turn on limiter on the shoot.
 
If you just need some channels, and you don't intend to use a mixer, why not use something like a DR680. I'd venture it will sound better than any cam, and can be had for a grand with bag and power (tekkeon). Of course the 680 doesn't have time code, but otherwise, would be better than the hpx.

Grant
 
The Tascam DR680 is a very tempting unit, but I got to have true SMPTE TC whenever there's video involved. There are at least 2-3 cameras. It's extremely hard to wasted hours trying to resync all of the media, especially smaller takes w/ many start/stop recs. It will be very challenging when the sound is almost identical from start to stop sessions (drum beats, no dialogue). No luxury for a smart slate. This is strictly live ENG type.

Despite many new NLE apps that claim to sync automatically, SMPTE TC is by far the most accurate, efficient, and foolproof way to sync them.

I do like the Tascam HS-P82 8-track recorder for about $3.5. What nice about this is that it has SMPTE in and out vs. SMPTE out only on the 788T. A bit fat looking though.
 
Last edited:
Nothing wrong with that I use the 250 as a B-camera to my HPX371 and sometimes feed sep sound to it as well so it gives me a total of six audio tracks, I sometimes also use two 371's and that can give me up to eight audio tracks which can be very flexible at times.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
...

I do like the Tascam HS-P82 8-track recorder for about $3.5. What nice about this is that it has SMPTE in and out vs. SMPTE out only on the 788T. A bit fat looking though.
Click to expand...
Don't know where you got your info about the SD788 but you're mistaken ... it does accept input of time code from an external source as well as offering TC output.
 
Mistaken for the another model. Odd that the top of the line & supposedly industry standard Sound Devices brand doesn't have SMPTE TC in, particularly its $6K price tag.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
Mistaken for the another model. Odd that the top of the line & supposedly industry standard Sound Devices brand doesn't have SMPTE TC in, particularly its $6K price tag.
Click to expand...
It does have TC in. There's one 5 pin LEMO connector for both TC functions, pin 2 used for SMPTE TC input, pin 5 for TC output. SD has several different LEMO to BNC or XLR breakout cables available to connect to other devices.
 
I used my HVX 201 as audio recorder a lot of times. I now have the HPX 250 and find the sound quality to be a bit more brittle. Sort of cheap digital preamp sounding. I am sure a SD device will outrank the sound quality by miles! But for convenience, yes any XLR supplied camera can be used.
 
It appears from the posts that the pre amp circuitry is the secret to crisp, high quality, and super clean sound. I only wish I have the luxury to have both high end dedicated 8-track recorder such as the SD 788T and the latest 1/3" & 2/3" cam for test. This will once and for all give a good A/B comparison to the quality.

Coming from lens and video background, I can relate a high quality 2/3" broadcast EFP $35K lens vs the cheap free stock lens on the HPX250 will have much better and more detailed rendition of the image. Similarly the high end pre amp found on SD 788 will have extra sound circuits not found on any camcorder to take full advantage of the high end Schoeps, AKG and other mics to its fullest. Thus this will result in rich and accurate sound vs. a generic, all-purpose, average sound found on camcorders.

Back to 8-track field recorders, subjectively and based on years of real world field experience - which one is performs at its best in the area of absolute pre amp sound quality? Tascam HS-P82, Sound Devices 788T, or another brand that I'm not aware of?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top