Using Hateful 8 in 70mm to teach my kids about "film"

[cyclone]

Morality equals politics.

Couldn't you then say:
"Opinions necessarily equal politics."
"Emotions necessarily equal politics."
"Film necessarily equals politics." (We know that's not true, look at ol' QT...without getting into the politics of it, of course.)

 

[Drew Ott]

Morality equals politics. I know you were being rhetorical but on this board we can't discuss morality all day which is fine. It keeps the forum civil and focused on film instead of politics.
Im not trying to censor you, I'm censoring myself. Your statements about the morality of the violence in the hateful 8 evokes a political response from me especially in light of tarantinos news making statements to a very political group called black lives matter. i understand the point you are making but I cannot respond to it because of the constraints of this forum. Cheers.
I loved the look of this new Star Wars movie. But I'm just not sure if it's the film or mostly the post production and the style of the dp. Would this movie have looked just as wonderful if it was shot on a red or arri? I've seen some really beautiful movies shot on those cameras.

If his non-political comments evoke a political response in you, that's your problem. Moral ambiguity was the central story element of Hateful 8. You root for one character, then he or she does something morally appalling, so you latch on to another character until the same thing happens, and in the end you don't know how to think. The way I see it, that's the central plot of the film. That's the emotional journey the audience goes through, each of us probably experiencing it in a unique way. Just because we aren't allowed to debate politics on this forum doesn't mean you're not allowed to have political thoughts going on inside your own head.

 

[combatentropy]

I completely understand the site's prohibition against politics. Visit any news site, scroll down to the comments, and witness mayhem. But DVXUser, somehow, is in a class above that. If you can't at least touch on personal topics, every now and then, in a civilized way, then you aren't a gentleman.



I feel that James0b57 and cyclone, and the rest have been gentlemen, and I appreciate that.

 

[cyclone]

Back at ya (and everyone). In all of the disagreements, no one was ever insulting. That's what makes DVXUser a step above.
Cool picture.
Sad loss.

 

[Guest]

I completely understand the site's prohibition against politics. Visit any news site, scroll down to the comments, and witness mayhem. But DVXUser, somehow, is in a class above that. If you can't at least touch on personal topics, every now and then, in a civilized way, then you aren't a gentleman.

View attachment 109162

I feel that James0b57 and cyclone, and the rest have been gentlemen, and I appreciate that.

Love this post. And i apologize for getting worked up. And i knew i was being a bit brash or perhaps passionate, and was going to delete it the next day. In a way i feel better having been quoted, aka can't delete the quote. i like what i meant, i don't exactly like how i said it. it does feel good to be unfiltered sometimes, but at what cost? Hope i will be a more exemplary gentlemen next time. Thank you

 

[David W. Richardson]

I agree with the mod on this one.

The discussion of the film vs. digital aspects was great. That's the kind of thing I come to this site for. The morality rant, on the other hand, was offensive to me.

Remember that it's not just politics banned here, it's also religion. I'm not sure I agree that morality equals politics, although I can see the point. But morality definitely connects to religion in a strong way. This could easily have erupted into a flame war. The fact that it didn't is irrelevant.

Some might say, "Well if it does turn into a flame war, then intervene." But once a flame war starts, the damage is already done.

Opinions are great. Opinions on filmmaking are wonderful. Opinions on politics and religion aren't permitted here, for very good reasons.

 

[cyclone]

David,
Thank you for your respect in presenting your case. I have nothing else to offer on the subject...so I'll go off on a tangent. When I was in film school many years ago (some of the best years of my life - the camaraderie, the creativity...), we were required to show all of the films we made in front of the entire film department and take all comments. One of my films was a short 2 minute comedy. One guy stood up to the microphone in the theater and asked, "What does your film mean?" I answered that it meant nothing, it was a comedy, purely for entertainment. He was outraged - he actually got furious and started swearing: "ALL FILMS ARE POLITICAL!!" he shouted. Hmmm, interesting, I thought. Thought about it ever since.

 

[David W. Richardson]

cyclone,

Interesting perspective. I'm not sure it's accurate. I suppose some political tangent could be extracted from most any film if someone were to look hard enough. Which would mean that all stories are political. Perhaps even all conversations.

 

[David W. Richardson]

Moral ambiguity was the central story element of Hateful 8. You root for one character, then he or she does something morally appalling, so you latch on to another character until the same thing happens, and in the end you don't know how to think. The way I see it, that's the central plot of the film. That's the emotional journey the audience goes through, each of us probably experiencing it in a unique way.

But the rant wasn't talking about any moral item in the movie, as far as I can tell. He was expounding upon what he, personally, finds morally objectionable in society and the world today. That's over the line in my opinion.

And the rant did tread into the political as well.

"I very much hate how news agencies capitalize on war and crime violence. But i guess we can all wish things were GI joe simple again, and we had an diffinitive enemy to establish the good ole good vs evil morality. Damn, sure nobody round these parts eats farmed steak. Mhmm! Gosh i love me some contradicting morality, just because something makes you uncomfortable, doesn't mean it disagrees with you. Well, lets just sweep the cuttings off the floor and call it a hotdog shall we? Let's just call it fair trade till we get bought out."

News agencies capitalizing on war and violence? The lack of a definitive enemy to unite against? Fair trade? All sound like political issues to me.

 

[Guest]

But the rant wasn't talking about any moral item in the movie, as far as I can tell. He was expounding upon what he, personally, finds morally objectionable in society and the world today. That's over the line in my opinion.

And the rant did tread into the political as well.

"I very much hate how news agencies capitalize on war and crime violence. But i guess we can all wish things were GI joe simple again, and we had an diffinitive enemy to establish the good ole good vs evil morality. Damn, sure nobody round these parts eats farmed steak. Mhmm! Gosh i love me some contradicting morality, just because something makes you uncomfortable, doesn't mean it disagrees with you. Well, lets just sweep the cuttings off the floor and call it a hotdog shall we? Let's just call it fair trade till we get bought out."

News agencies capitalizing on war and violence? The lack of a definitive enemy to unite against? Fair trade? All sound like political issues to me.

In the cartoons when i was a kid, characters didn't have to be so complicated. There were characters that fulfilled a role... The bad guy was the bad guy. He did bad things because he was the bad guy. It is used in literature and movies, this type of person embodies an archetype. What kind of story you tell and how one portrays those characters can vary a good deal. Some viewers like the way it is in a GI Joe cartoon, with an easily defined enemy. Some viewers want the villian or hero to be somewhat more difficult to distinguish. Viewers can argue about which type of characters they like better, but the films or stories may not be that different in the end. But the GI joe format is much more simple and easy to define the good vs evil construct.

Don't shape my words. Sorry if i was unclear. It wasn't a thesis. But you added words and twisted my meaning. Do not do that.



i worked for news. It is an important job to many. It can be very exciting and rewarding. Some extremely sharp minds both in front and behind the camera. Some of the best people i have worked with. But it was difficult trying to be the first one on the scene of a shooting. Familes crying, neighbors crying with them. It sells though. Sorry, if my personal experience offends you. I brought it up to relate to Combatentropy. But one thing i never did, was say whether it was right or wrong. You seem to be fine with me saying i hate the violence in QT films and video games, but if i hate it in news, this is somehow odd to you?

the other things were all references to things that i like, but also i have to admit to the ambiguity of them. I am not saying that they are wrong or right, but asking is it so easy to be good? And if not, why be so quick to speak out at the expense of your fellow man/woman? They do not need to be judged here. We are quick to judge. But for what?

Combatentropy took a moral stance on the idea of Cyclone taking his children to see a film with gore, yet also where they learned something invaluable about film...

...Just turns out that i have a similar moral opinion to combatentropy, when it comes to violence, except, i don't want morality to take the place of what this thread was so wonderfully started on. So, i went on a rant arguing that films don't have to fit a moral paradigm, they can be realistic or gorey and they don't have to be any worse or better for it. Take the morality out. Not always, just in this thread. In a twist, turns out a couple of you think i am being political and religious. Sorry, i am bad with words or you don't want to think about the meaning of my words, or you just wish i had some juicy subtext. Nope. Just me wondering why a film maker can't watch a QT film on film to see film. (Last i checked, there weren't many 70mm films of late)

do you guys want to talk about film, or do you want to keep twisting my words? I am loving the irony of all of this, but it has perhaps gone down a road about things that no one ever said. A bit of a game of telephone.

 

[medavoym]

The 70mm projection was awesome. When you see a movie like that, you realize why FILM is still beautiful and digital still has to catch up to it.