Using a Wireless for Dramatic Work?

mjmcneese

mjmcneese

Veteran
I do all kinds of work - TV, docs, dramatic, corporate, weddings, etc. Right now my audio system is a Panny cam-mount shotgun. I get by in a lot of situations, but I find myself renting a wireless, or hiring an audio guy if I can afford it. In the next couple months I'm producing some TV stuff that is going to require 'good' sound, but it will be a run-n-gun type deal by myself, so I'm thinking that a G2 would work for that. But then I've got a lot of work planned where I can definitely use a good boom mic, but it won't make sense to hire out for an audio guy as much as I'm going to be using it (a lot).

So, my question is, for what I can afford (~ $700) right now, and for the type of work that I'm going to be doing in the near future, would it make sense to go ahead and buy a G2? Can I use it for dramatic work - can it be hidden and still get good pickup? If I get a G2, then maybe I can also afford a boom setup to use my Panny on for now, if that would be better than using a G2 for dramatic stuff. Or would it be more wise to get a better shotgun/hyper mic?

I love the sound that I'm getting from my audio guy (I think he's got a 4073 setup), but some of the stuff I'm doing is going to be me and a host in the woods for two days doing talking head stuff...I like to think I'm good at this, but I can't run a camera and a boom mic at the same time!
 
As Phil said in a post today: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=47871 you really want both a boom and w/l for most audio work.

The G2 is very popular and provides a minimum acceptable sound when used properly.

A quesion I have to ask is if you are doing professional TV work why don't you bring your sound guy? Was this not budgeted for?

When talking with people trying to make little independent flims with their DVX and no budget, I certainly understand they can't hire a soundguy but if you are doing professional level work why no soundman?

Cheers
 
wabbit said:
A quesion I have to ask is if you are doing professional TV work why don't you bring your sound guy? Was this not budgeted for?
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Wabbit, it's a state government-funded TV show...need I say more? I could probably bring a sound guy out for some things, but seriously, I'm gonna be in the field for a few consecutive days, and there's no way to afford another person for that amount of time.

I guess my question is more about how I can make a G2 work from dramatic work - I've done some audio stuff before, but I'm not familiar with how to go about covering up a lav and still get good sound. Er maybe this Panny mic on a boom would be better for dramatic stuff? (Hopefully I can go ahead and get a hyper/shotgun mic in the next couple months, so I'm asking about a temp situation).
 
mjmcneese2 said:
...it's a state government-funded TV show...
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Your working for THE MAN? Well, then in good conscience I can't offer up any assistance if you are working for the enemy (JK, joke, :) I love the government and all that work for it, please don't ban me or tell the Dept of Homeland Security).

But seriously folks...tap, tap...Is this thing on?

There was just a thread describing good techniques for hiding lavs in here recently (90% certain in was on this board). Poke around or use the search.

You also might want to pick up Jay Rose's book on good audio for digital video.

Other places for lav info:

http://www.locationsound.com/proaudio/ls/tips/techtips8_4.html (ok, the irony of posting a link to Location Sound after my recent rant on them is not lost on me)

RAMPS (user group: rec.arts.movies.production.sound; Sign up thru google) had a good thread on hiding lavs while back. Search there with "wiring talent hiding lavs"

Good luck
 
wabbit said:
Your working for THE MAN? Well, then in good conscience I can't offer up any assistance if you are working for the enemy
Click to expand...


Thanks much, Wabbit! Yeah, it's a freelance gig...pays some bills.

I'll check out the other threads for more info.

This might be a good reason to humor my wife and go head and have kids - wonder how old a kid's gotta be to hold a 12' boom up for an hour?
 
Also recenlty used G2 to mic myself doing a website promo. Found it to be somewhat distorted no matter what I did. Any secrets on setting up those mics.? What settings do you use? Feel like I need a degree in electrical engineering and German genes to understand this Sennheiser mic.
 
C-Stand...for some odd reason I never thought of that idea. Might not help me too much in an event/wedding situation, but I could continue to rent for that, I guess.

Peabody - like I said, I've always rented G2s - like $45/day - and I always had the guy that I rented from set them up for me. I can change channels and stuff like that, but the rest of the stuff is greek to me. I feel for ya.
 
Peabody said:
Also recenlty used G2 to mic myself doing a website promo. Found it to be somewhat distorted no matter what I did. Any secrets on setting up those mics.? What settings do you use? Feel like I need a degree in electrical engineering and German genes to understand this Sennheiser mic.
Click to expand...


If you haven't already figured this out, check out this tutorial online and you will see that the default levels Sennheiser sets are WAY HOT for whatever reason.

http://www.dvcreators.net/products/sennheiser_wireless_movieframe.htm
 
Peabody, a little late responding...but...
were you using the mic that came with the G2? If so, there is little or nothing you can do to adjust to make that mic sound good...you need to replace it. There are several threads with recommendations...but here's the quick summary (in my preference order):

1. Countryman B6
2. Sanken COS11
3. DPA 46something (oleg, I can never remember)
4. Countryman B3
5. Countryman EMW
6. Sennheiser MKE2 (not to be confused with the MK2 that came with your kit)

Phil
 
mjmcneese2 said:
... how I can make a G2 work from dramatic work ...
Click to expand...
you make a gaff tape taco and put it INSIDE the actors shirt in the hollow under the bones at the base of your neck / top of your chest.
  1. So you start with gaff tape and you make a football -- like the paper or tape kind you would thump through your friends thumbs as they stood in for goal posts. MAKE THE STICKEY SIDE OF THE TAPE OUT. If your not sure what I mean by football, then think triangle, you are folding one corner of the tape over so it makes a triangle and then just repeat rolling the tape over and over on itself. MAKE IT THICK, at least three or four fold overs.
  2. Make another triangle / football just like the other one - again tape side out.
  3. lay your mic against one of the traingles with the mic tip near one edge of the triangle and the chord running straight through the poinyt opposite that edge ... so if the tape triangle was a waffle cone, you would put the tip of the mic near the wide top of the waffle cone (but still inside it) and the mic wire would run out the bottom of the waffle cone.
  4. put the other tape triangle on the othe side of the mic and press the edges of the tape together. So now you've made a mic taco where the tape is tight around the edges and bottom of the mic, but the top of the mic is still exposed. -- You've placed the tip near the edge of the tape traingles so that the can't close all the way around it.
  5. gaff tape the mic to the actor and their clothing -- obviously you've put the tape on each side of it to keep from rubbing against the clothing, but by tapeing it to the actor and the clothes you are actually stopping rubbing (to a degree. Some people shave the area - but I'm pretty hairy and a sound guy has never needed to shave me and the gaff tape doesnt really hurt because its gaff tape and since the football is semi regid its not the same as wrapping tape around your arme where it is incerdibly tight and pressing your skin down.
  6. place the tranmmitter on your actor.
  7. if it really hot or the actor sweats a lot or if the transmitter will be hard to get to often you may want to place the transmitter inside a non lubricated condom.
  8. take up the slack in the mic line and form a loose circle about the size of a CD or a pringles can lid.
  9. join the loops of mic wire together by make a small loop of tape, again sticky side out. So the now the mic cable rests inside a non sticky cylender of tape with the stick side out. it should be very loose and if you pull the mic cable on either side of the tape loop its should slide easily through it as as the circled mic cables shrink.
  10. Attache the tape loop of slac mic cable to the actor under the clothing actor or two the clothing (not both this time) by taping the tape loop in place (careful however you tape it doesn't also tape the mic cable down. The idea here is that the mic cable won't be to tight and won't just be thrown loose into the actors ****, the tape loop lets the cable expand if they stretch and even contract to a degree.
before doing the above I always got good sound quality with the occasional take ruining clothing rub noise or a lot of time wasted on set trying to get the clothes not to rub against the mic -- I knew that it invode a tape football but didn't know how to do it or that it should be two of them sticky side out taped to both actor and clothes.

NOTE: you may sometimes gey clothes noise too with this, but I've found very seldomly so.

for car scenes or diner scenes whete the actos are sitting in one place I've also put the mic over the ear that's not on camera.

I asked a sound guy about it and the above was his prescription. This is also the way another sound guy miked me and the star studio movie that I had small part in. Since the director shoots with multiple cameras from various angles for the same take (some 50 feet away, some 10 feet away) a boom wasn't possible. He did move it a couple of times and then finally asked me if I could stop dropping my gas mas on my chest as I was bascially popping it right into the mic.

But I do agree that a boom and lavs together is the best.

I have the s2's and I love them BTW.

One thing when you get the s2 sets -- get at least one that's bundled with a buttplug for a boom mic, those sets arent that much more than the ones that come without the buttplug. that way you could even gaff your boom somewhere stategic especially if you are using it as a back up, and of course you can boom wirelessly then. It's just a lot of added flexibility for and extra $75 or hundred dollars if I'm remembering correctly.
 
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A couple of comments...first, I wouldn't use gaffer's tape...leaves way too much residue on the cable...I use the Scotch brand paper tape (used to mask walls when painting). I also use a tape called Hypofix right over the head of the mic in many cases. Hypofix is a pourous (sp?) tape that is used by hospitals to keep IV lines in place. It's expensive (like $11 a roll), but it works really well to hold the mic in place and I haven't heard any distortion as a result. The triangles mentioned above to help to minimize the clothing rub, but that too will depend on the mic you're using. If it is the stock G2 mic (MK2 or MK4) you will get clothing noise no matter what you do.

Phil
 
never had a problem with gaffers - thought that was the point - no residue.
but the painters tape sounds like a good idea if its sticky enough to stay on.

One question -- not trying to be a wise ass, really just asking -- how does better frequency response and mic pattern cancel out clothing rub? Or is there something about better mic casings that cancel clothing noise? If its the casings, do they really do that much better than a 1/4" thick layet of gaff tape at cancelling noise -- I can easiliy see how they could cancel a comparible amount of noise and have less distortion. Painters tape is much thinner and seems like it would cancel noice less.

And where does one find this Hypofix tape you speak of -- in the hardware store?

thanks
 
I'm not exactly sure of the mechanics, but generally it is better casing and wiring. I rarely get any clothing noise with my B3 or my B6, but my MK2 and MK4 are terrible, no matter how I place it. But, you can actually hear it just by gently rubbing the cable on the mic...

As far as Hypafix goes, medical supply stores usually have it. You can do a search for it on-line too.

Phil
 
thanks Phil

Sounds like a good test to do if can when buying / testing these things.

I've deceided I'm just gonna have my mics surgically implanted in the actor's inner ear from now on :cheesy:
 
the main source of rub and conducted sound is usually the cable - adding a loop in the cable, secured with a little cotton so the loop is free moving with give some strain relief, and it also helps to secure the cable to the actors body or belt under the loop, but obviously before the Tx.

that often helps...
 
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