Using a hazer for the first time in large warehouse.

Fluoro

Fluoro

Well-known member
I've never even been on a set with a hazer. Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations or warnings. Here's the space:

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There are going to be two cars facing each other and two performers who will spend time inside the cars and outside them.

The shoot goes for four hours. The space is about 20m x 20m x 7m. I'm going to need a powerful hazer I'm guessing?

Also I don't want to breathe terrible stuff in. Is there a particular type of hazer that's safer to breathe?

Is using hazers difficult? It's pretty much a no budget shoot and I want to be concentrating on composition and lighting not whether the hazer is working on not.

Any advice appreciated.

Is an Antari Haze400 suitable? With the following specs:

- Output: 2,800 cu.ft/min- Tank Capacity: 2.5 Liter- Fluid Consumption Rate: 16 Hrs./Liter- Remote Included: HC-1 (Timer Remote)- Air Pressure: 30 Psi
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Hey Damien,

Give Darren Holborow at LX Productions a call. They're at: 18b Wadhurst Drive, Boronia Phone: 9801 1131. They're super helpful and offer the best hire price I've come across in Melbourne.

I can't remember if we used the Antari or the Haze unit, but I was told they're pretty close to identical in terms of output and effect. So long as you can close the doors and windows in that space, you'll be just fine - the hazer is a beast, much better for output than the crappy little smoke machines most people get.

The oil-based fluid used is perfectly safe, and it doesn't stink so it's much easier to be around than the standard smoke machines too. Just let it chug away until you have the required ambience, and then top it up with more as needed - the haze hangs in the air for ages, so it's really easy to work with.
 
What effect are you looking for? As for saftey look at a copy of the MDS for their haze fluid. As far as breathing for 4 hours everybody is different.
 
I've used hazers in the past, my disaster/warning story has more to do with preventing any serious drafts that will just suck out your haze in a matter of seconds!

The good thing about a hazer (as opposed to a fog machine) is that the haze can last a lot longer then a fog/smoke machine but you will still need to periodically generate the haze, and waft it around to spread it into all areas of your warehouse. Some people have recommended that I run it continually but the projects I worked on also needed sound so I ended up having it turned off between takes anyway.

As you probably already know a hazer is great if you want light beams to show up, or lasers, and with backlighting can actually help act as fill on your talent or scene.

If someone talks you into a fog machine saying it is the same thing, it most certainly is not. A smoke/fog machine produces dense smoke that doesn't stay in the air very long, and doesn't distribute throughout an entire room evenly unless you pump so much of it in a room that it ends up looking like there is a fire in-camera.

Definitely check the Material Data Safety sheets for information about the fluid you're using in your hazer. Last thing you want is to cause health issues or cause a law suit.
 
If you get or hire a proper hazer then you won't have issues. Look at the LeMaitre machines and of course the DF50 - both are quite capable. The UK have very strict safety standards for inhaled smpke and haze, and these machines are proven to not cause drying of the throat or other problems (which many 'names' will insist they create). If you look at the prices, the cheaper haze machines produce large particles that sink more quickly, and the really cheap ones produce what is really thin smoke. A single machine can fill your space quite simply, and you'll probably need to turn them off every now and again. In your space, I'd probably stick it on the roof of the little office, so it squirts up to the roof, then it will spread and gently drop.

None of the fluid these machines use is dangerous. We frequently have them running for perhaps 6 hours or more with people who have asthma and use inhalers, and it has no effect on them at all. Cheap machines that burn fluid can produce a perfectly safe, but somewhat acrid smoke, that you can taste.

The Le Maitre ones I use are really frugal - the quantity of fluid used is tiny due to the small droplet size, and as a result the fallout is almost undetectable. Cheap machines use lots more fluid, and if it uses a litre of fluid in a day, that litre ends up on the floor! Professional quality hazers are expensive, but well worth it!

One venue I use them in leaks badly and is in a very windy area. Smoke machines belch out a cloud of smoke, and sometimes, after travelling ten feet, the wind is strong enough to blow it back the other way. The hazers we use take a while to spread everywhere, but do not suffer from draughts quite so much as the bigger droplet ones.

One word of caution Le Maitre Neutrons are my own favourite and we have two - BUT - there are Chinese produced look-alikes at a quarter of the price, and they are badged in many different makes - but these have very different innards and are of the 'disco' type, with bigger droplet size and fluid consumption. Le Maitre machines need special fluid - quite expensive too, but it does last ages of course.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys. I feel much more relaxed. Now I'm excited about using a hazer!

Hey Mark thanks but that company is in the wrong part of town for me compared to Concert Audio Visual which also charge less. $66 compared to $88 for the same unit for the first day. Your guys might be cheaper for multiple days though? I ended up booking the most powerful unit Concert AV had, the Robe Haze500 Pro, it was the same cost as the 400 so it was an easy decision.
 
You have gotten a bit of good advice already. I prefer to use water based hazers around camera equipment. While the oil based hazers like the DF50 have much better haze, after years of rock and roll shows I have cleaned my fair share of residue out of the optical train of moving lights. Water based hazers tend to be a bit gentler on that kind of thing.

Make sure you TEST it before the shoot. Many people claim that hazers won't set off smoke alarms but until you test and know for sure, anything can happen. Once again, I have set off my fair share of them as well.
 
Fluoro said:
Hey Mark thanks but that company is in the wrong part of town for me compared to Concert Audio Visual which also charge less. $66 compared to $88 for the same unit for the first day. Your guys might be cheaper for multiple days though? I ended up booking the most powerful unit Concert AV had, the Robe Haze500 Pro, it was the same cost as the 400 so it was an easy decision.
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Easy done then! I've only had the hazer out on week-long shoots, but the weekly rate from LX was a fraction of the weekly rate I was quoted from everywhere else.
 
bclighting said:
You have gotten a bit of good advice already. I prefer to use water based hazers around camera equipment. While the oil based hazers like the DF50 have much better haze, after years of rock and roll shows I have cleaned my fair share of residue out of the optical train of moving lights. Water based hazers tend to be a bit gentler on that kind of thing.

Make sure you TEST it before the shoot. Many people claim that hazers won't set off smoke alarms but until you test and know for sure, anything can happen. Once again, I have set off my fair share of them as well.
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Thanks. Good advice there!
 
Grug said:
Easy done then! I've only had the hazer out on week-long shoots, but the weekly rate from LX was a fraction of the weekly rate I was quoted from everywhere else.
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I'll certainly look into them when I do a longer shoot. BTW it was thanks to you I found out about New Media Sales who had a Pocket Cinema Camera to sell me off the shelf so thanks for that!
 
A good unit probably a bit too powerful but ok because depending on what you are shooting you might need to keep switching it off as the compressor sounds a bit like a truck. Good haze though. Don't over haze because the camera starts to see it floating around.
 
I'm surprised by the fact that's a very old document and quite a few different types of machines are now in use, but what it does show is that they are not really a problem. The smaller droplet size the better. The cheap ones are very smokey. The production this week has smoke and haze. There's a draft and the smoke machine manages about 6 feet then the smoke reverses direction. The haze fills the place. Some machines are really loud, others tend to drip, and others just clog up!
 
Fluoro said:
I'll certainly look into them when I do a longer shoot. BTW it was thanks to you I found out about New Media Sales who had a Pocket Cinema Camera to sell me off the shelf so thanks for that!
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Ah, nice! How do you find it? I'm really quite liking mine - it's trickier to rig up for regular production than the standard BMCs I've had, but I like it - the smaller sensor makes rolling shutter less of a problem, so having the stabler image definitely helps it.
 
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