Uses for COB Light?

[Run&Gun]

I disagree. I dont know how many people would pay more money for fair labor.

But personally, I'm willing to compromise on product quality to save money as long as the product is "good enough". Saving money by taking it out of someone else's flesh is a totally different consideration.

But is there a single electronics manufacturer who would currently qualify for such a certificate? Bye bye, M1!

Supposedly China has agreed to move towards entering international agreements on slave labor as part of its recent trade deal with the EU. But is it just a fig leaf?

When I said no way in hell, I was responding directly to Dan’s question of “do you think most in this business would?”. And no, I don’t think they would. Maybe some very public, “social conscious” corporations who had pressure put on them and maybe they would even put pressure on their contractors to, as well. And by social conscious, I mean ones that are worried about their public image, not that they really give a rat’s a s s, which is really most corporations.

 

[Run&Gun]

I was trying to patent a lighting panel that had thousands of fireflies in it and market it as the first video light that is truly without heat. I even hooked up with a worm bait manufacturer named Gary's Big Worms and was able to get some big packages of worm bait to include with the lights so the owners of the light could trap food to keep the light going. Unfortunately, PETA shot it down and as such I'm still a schnook freelance DP who eats egg noodles and ketchup.

Don’t let PETA find out you’re eating egg noodles. Eggs come from chickens and well... You know... PETA. Come to think of it, I wouldn’t let them find out about the ketchup, either. I think they just classified tomatoes as conscious beings. Not to be confused with beans, which they say are still ok to eat, as long as they died from natural causes.

 

[ahalpert]

I get that a 600w COB is killer bright but I'm confused as to why it would be worse to look at that fixture bare than at a bare 800w HMI

 

[mcbob]

I get that a 600w COB is killer bright but I'm confused as to why it would be worse to look at that fixture bare than at a bare 800w HMI

Some of the blue light wavelengths emitted by LEDs are particularly damaging to retinas. Never look at a bare emitter.... and no, I wouldn’t blast one directly at talent.

 

[puredrifting]

I agree with you all at that most people wouldn't pay a penny more for their gear if they knew that it wasn't made with slave/badly treated/paid/abused labor. Unfortunately when I worked in retail electronics in the 80s is when
we, as a country, really saw the idiotic notion that the cheapest is the best take place with the American consumer. Here we are 45 years later and largely, that mentality is still in effect. Price over everything. It's sad. I recall some
work in buying psychology back then that said the average consumer would most likely buy the second to bottom of the line most of the time. Not the absolute cheapest, just one notch up.

I was thinking, I paid $750.00 ea. for my new Godox VL300. I have no idea if they were made with slave/badly treated/paid labor. If I could be assured, with proof that they weren't made with any of that, I would have paid a 10% premium on the price.
You don't think people would pay $825.00 for that assurance? You're probably right.

It's really why WalMart, Costco and now Amazon destroyed anyone who wasn't them and of course, the small mom and pops for the most part. It's too bad, there used to be a range of goods at varying quality levels available for
most given things you would buy. Now it's pretty much cheap Chinese junk or top of the line stuff that is still often cheap Chinese junk with premium branding and packaging. Thankfully this isn't prevalent in everything, I just researched
and bought a new set of cooking pans. Thank goodness All Clad is still in business in Pennsylvania. They are expensive, but American made, high quality and should last a lifetime with care. I paid 2x to 3x as much as what are the best sellers
simply because I want this to be the last set of pots and pans I ever buy. I'm so sick of disposable junk.

 

[ahalpert]

Some of the blue light wavelengths emitted by LEDs are particularly damaging to retinas. Never look at a bare emitter.... and no, I wouldn’t blast one directly at talent.

their retinas, their problem. jk

 

[Liam Hall]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me which lighting manufacturers use slave labour. That's quite an accusation and not one that should be thrown around lightly.

I was thinking, I paid $750.00 ea. for my new Godox VL300. I have no idea if they were made with slave/badly treated/paid labor. If I could be assured, with proof that they weren't made with any of that, I would have paid a 10% premium on the price.

Godox sell via Amazon who have a clearly defined anti-slave policy. If you have doubts check it out with them.

I've been in factories all over China and seen very high standards of production. I am also aware of some truly shocking practices that go on there and in other countries including here in the UK. I've also been all over the US and seen both good and bad. One reason Chinese goods are cheap is because of the state sponsored capitalist system they operate today gives them an unfair advantage against the rest of the world. They are also very good at manufacturing and have a large, well educated workforce they can call on. Other countries, not so much. A cheap product doesn't mean slaves have been used. And to the same end, something made in your own country doesn't make it better than if it was made anywhere else. I'm not having a go at anyone here, just saying we need to be careful about saying something is unethical without actual evidence.

 

[ahalpert]

I dont know what other people are talking about exactly. But supposedly Uyghur Muslims are now being forced to labor in factories, including electronics factories. The Australian human rights report implicated over 80 brands, but these are all household names. I doubt they would mention Godox or aputure even if they knew it. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2DhvIO2YxG9CVl7CYt20No

Plus, I sort of feel like a lot of electronics components are sourced through the same supply chain. So the whole system is tainted.

And this is on top of low wages and working conditions that are similar to industrial revolution america (locking factory doors, outrageous shift lengths, living in dormitories) for the volunteer workforce. Hence all the suicides at Foxconn.

And that's just China. I dont know about Vietnam or Mexico or many of these other places. But I understand that part of the reason free trade reduces the cost of goods is because the laws of developing countries allow for exploitation (not to mention more pollution etc)

But it's possible that someone else has specific knowledge about a specific brand. I don't

 

[Run&Gun]

their retinas, their problem. jk

I know you’re kidding, but I had a friend(reporter I used to work with all the time for over a decade), end up in the ER, while out on assignment, after he woke up in the middle of the night in his hotel room with searing pain in his eyes. The locally hired photog(from what I was told) had removed the safety glass(UV coated) from his HMI and had it extremely close to my friend and at a low angle. He had burned his retinas. My friend said it felt like a horrible sun burn in his eyes.

Besides the pain he had to endure, he was also sidelined for weeks while he recovered and then after he came back, you had to be very careful when lighting him for a while.

 

[DDort]

Chill with the truth bombs, guy. If we don't know, then we can't feel guilty. : )

I dont know what other people are talking about exactly. But supposedly Uyghur Muslims are now being forced to labor in factories, including electronics factories. The Australian human rights report implicated over 80 brands, but these are all household names. I doubt they would mention Godox or aputure even if they knew it. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2DhvIO2YxG9CVl7CYt20No

Plus, I sort of feel like a lot of electronics components are sourced through the same supply chain. So the whole system is tainted.

And this is on top of low wages and working conditions that are similar to industrial revolution america (locking factory doors, outrageous shift lengths, living in dormitories) for the volunteer workforce. Hence all the suicides at Foxconn.

And that's just China. I dont know about Vietnam or Mexico or many of these other places. But I understand that part of the reason free trade reduces the cost of goods is because the laws of developing countries allow for exploitation (not to mention more pollution etc)

But it's possible that someone else has specific knowledge about a specific brand. I don't

 

[Liam Hall]

I dont know what other people are talking about exactly. But supposedly Uyghur Muslims are now being forced to labor in factories, including electronics factories. The Australian human rights report implicated over 80 brands, but these are all household names. I doubt they would mention Godox or aputure even if they knew it. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2DhvIO2YxG9CVl7CYt20No

Plus, I sort of feel like a lot of electronics components are sourced through the same supply chain. So the whole system is tainted.

And this is on top of low wages and working conditions that are similar to industrial revolution america (locking factory doors, outrageous shift lengths, living in dormitories) for the volunteer workforce. Hence all the suicides at Foxconn.

And that's just China. I dont know about Vietnam or Mexico or many of these other places. But I understand that part of the reason free trade reduces the cost of goods is because the laws of developing countries allow for exploitation (not to mention more pollution etc)

But it's possible that someone else has specific knowledge about a specific brand. I don't

I know about the Uyghurs situation, it's shocking, but that doesn't mean Godox or Aputure are tarnished. If they are, I'd definitely like to know and they won't get any more of my money.

As I said earlier, I've filmed in a lot of these places. You'd be surprised by the standards in a many of them. Lower labour costs, yes, lower operating costs, yes, but that's not exploitation, it's economics. That said, exploitation does happen way too much and we should call it out whether it's in a factory in Guangzhou or an electronics store in New York.

 

[ahalpert]

You're saying the standards are actually pretty good? That would make me feel better

The one thing about places like Shenzhen et cetera is that (I've read) they source parts from other nearby factories for making a more complex product. So, godox is going nearby to get screws of different sorts and also probably transistors etc (I dont know), whatever are the more basic components of the LEDs it's putting together. It's not like it makes all the bits in-house in its own factory. You wouldn't expect that. I think the MO is to bring in every component as finished as possible and then do final assembly in-house. (So, similar components may go into lights, speakers, TVs, wherever they can be shared.) Which all makes perfect sense, but also means that there are probably dozens of factories contributing to a Godox light, which is why I say the whole system is tainted.

Ok, I don't know for a fact that forced labor is involved in the godox/aputure supply chain (or arri if they bring in parts from china). I just think it's possible. And certainly apple has been specifically implicated in the Australian report. And apple has lobbied usa Congress to water down measures against forced labor

Apple lobbyists are trying to weaken a bill aimed at preventing forced labor in China, according to two congressional staffers familiar with the matter, highlighting the clash between its business imperatives and its official stance on human rights.

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The Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act would require U.S. companies to guarantee they do not use imprisoned or coerced workers from the predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang, where academic researchers estimate the Chinese government has placed more than 1 million people into internment camps. Apple is heavily dependent on Chinese manufacturing, and human rights reports have identified instances in which alleged forced Uighur labor has been used in Apple’s supply chain.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...ology/2020/11/20/apple-uighur/?outputType=amp

It seems that the Uyghur Forced Labor Protection Act passed the US house with only 3 nays but hasn't passed the senate yet.

Lens Technology — a gadget glass supplier to companies like Amazon, Apple, and Tesla — has used thousands of such workers as part of the Chinese government’s ongoing detention and forced labor campaign against people of the Uighur minority.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...ghur-forced-labor-xinjiang-amazon-apple-tesla

Apple's response seems to be that, as far as they know, no force laborers were working for Lens Technology on Apple-bound products

 

[Run&Gun]

Apple's response seems to be that, as far as they know, no force laborers were working for Lens Technology on Apple-bound products

My presumption is it's probably along the lines of "Don't ask, don't tell"/"We don't want to know".

 

[ahalpert]

My presumption is it's probably along the lines of "Don't ask, don't tell"/"We don't want to know".

That would be my guess. But i also feel like this distinction is meaningless. If lens technology is giving them a good price because they benefit from forced labor in their other operations, then apple is still benefiting from forced labor. Anf just doing business with an entity like that sanctions their practices. Of course, the chinese companies may not even have a choice. It could be influenced by the government.

But I consider myself to be complicit as well. I buy apple. And look at all the other brands that are implicated- Nike, etc.

Personally, I'd like to see legislative action in the US and in China to clean up the supply chains we all use so I can shop for the best products and prices in good conscience without worrying about who I'm dealing with

 

[Liam Hall]

You're saying the standards are actually pretty good? That would make me feel better

In many cases, manufacturing in the Far East makes us in the West look backward. Some of their cities do too. You’d be surprised how technologically advanced they are and how well educated their young people are.

 

[ahalpert]

Well, no, that wouldn't surprise me personally. I consider china/japan/Korea to be just as technologically advanced as us. In most ways moreso, maybe in some ways less (depending on the country).

But what I consider backwards (in china anyway) is the status of the rights of the individual relative to the state and the employer. It seems like in the last 5 years they have made strides to improve workplace safety. But I'm under the impression that we have more rights in the west than in china. I wouldn't put Korea and japan in the same category

And considering that they have internment camps leading to forced labor...

 

[Liam Hall]

But I'm under the impression that we have more rights in the west than in china. I wouldn't put Korea and japan in the same category

Oh, for sure.

And considering that they have internment camps leading to forced labor...

Also, for sure. There is a lot to criticise and be wary of, not least their human rights record as I mentioned earlier or their unfair economic advantage through state interventions, you can also add intellectual property theft to the list. I've also seen, first hand, what I call Chinese Imperialism spreading throughout Africa and other places, but that's another subject...

You can make a strong moral case for boycotting all products that have Chinese parts, and while you're at it, boycott all those suppliers of cheap fashions that come out of sweatshops on the Indian subcontinent etc. Saying, buy American, or buy British (in my case) isn't really an answer though. It just smacks of exceptionalism.

 

[ahalpert]

Where did you go in Africa and when, out of curiosity?

I dont want to make it sound like we're perfect in the west, either. Or that we have the same standards in every country. But it would be nice if the companies we purchase from treated their workers as well as we treat our own

 

[Liam Hall]

Where did you go in Africa and when, out of curiosity?

I've been going there for years but have still only scratched the surface, it's a big place:

Kenya, 6 times
South Africa 4 times
Nigeria 3 times
Botswana
Uganda 2 x
Niger
Ghana
Tanzania
Egypt
Algeria
Morrocco
South Sudan
Namibia
Lesotho

But it would be nice if the companies we purchase from treated their workers as well as we treat our own

In general, yes, but I've seen things in US factories that have appalled my European eyes and only two miles up the road from where I live police raided a camp where slaves were being hidden. We need to make sure our own house is in order before pointing the finger at others.

 

[ahalpert]

Or maybe we can get all our houses in order simultaneously . At least your government is raiding the slavers and not being the slavers... that's crazy tho

What did you see in the US? safety violations?

What's the chinese imperialism you see in africa? Political influence bought by economic investment and trade?