Uses for COB Light?

[ahalpert]

As long as all cameramen etc are laboring under the same safety regime and thus it raises the costs of business for everyone across the board, I think it's admirable. In the US, all too often you can't take safety into account until something bad happens and someone has actual damages and then your only recourse is to sue.

 

[paulears]

On YouTube there are quite a few videos where cameras go5 damaged by laser light at weddings or shows etc. Here, scanning an audience is not on, strictly speaking. All our codes of practice say it’s bad, don’t do it, but every cheap amateur wedding DJ does it.

If the cameras die, our much more sensitive retinas will die too! Crazily dangerous. When I have to got to these wedding events, I close my eyes when they strobe, because photo-sensitive epilepsy I don’t have, yet, and lasers make me look at the floor or ceiling, but where is your eye drawn? Where the beams in the air converge, as in the damn dangerous bit!

 

[Liam Hall]

Interesting, I did several shoots at Glaxo House outside of London and there was literally no HSE/PAT requirement about anything we did. But that was inside Glaxo's own little world there.

I've shot at various Glaxo offices - easy peasey! There is no standard procedure for these things, different organisations have different requirements and my clients have different expectations too, some would be alarmed if I didn't secure floor cables with hazard tape, others would;t know what hazard tape is. Likewise, some buildings my kit gets X-rayed and visually inspected on entry, others nothing. The same goes with Covid safety rules - implementation varies greatly. I shot on a shiny new Royal Navy aircraft carrier in September and was shocked to see no one wearing facemasks on board. It got locked down the following week due to an outbreak of Covid... ....go figure.

 

[mcbob]

Nanny state discussions aside...

COBs are used much like the old open-face lights of yore. These high-wattage daylight COBs are most effective for one thing, which is dumping metric buttloads of daylight into a space via bounce, diffusion, or cut light. They tend to be too strong and ugly to be used unmodified (and, back to the H&S discussion, can be incredibly damaging to retinas when bare). Play with them to see what you like best... straight through a softbox or diffusion frame, bounced into a big umbrella, shoot-through umbrellas, bounced off a sheet of muslin (a'la 'cove light'), etc etc.

IMHO I agree with those who suggest that lights this powerful have the battery option as a last resort, less so than a common operational method. My personal "battery option" with these kinds of lights is a 12V marine deep-cycle battery with a 600W inverter (~$200 for the whole setup and can run multiple lights all day, but heavy). If I'm able to employ a cart on a job, the battery/inverter box just lives on the cart and provides AC power anywhere. The large v-mounts are better when you need totally silent running or a lower profile, quicker mobility, etc... you'll know your applications.

FWIW I wound up landing on the Intellytech X-100's for the simple reasons that they're bi-color and focusable without need for any fresnel accessories. They lack a little in punch, but I have other lights for that. Also helps that they're slave-labor free (AFAIK).

 

[Run&Gun]

Nanny state discussions aside...

COBs are used much like the old open-face lights of yore. These high-wattage daylight COBs are most effective for one thing, which is dumping metric buttloads of daylight into a space via bounce, diffusion, or cut light. They tend to be too strong and ugly to be used unmodified (and, back to the H&S discussion, can be incredibly damaging to retinas when bare). Play with them to see what you like best... straight through a softbox or diffusion frame, bounced into a big umbrella, shoot-through umbrellas, bounced off a sheet of muslin (a'la 'cove light'), etc etc.

IMHO I agree with those who suggest that lights this powerful have the battery option as a last resort, less so than a common operational method. My personal "battery option" with these kinds of lights is a 12V marine deep-cycle battery with a 600W inverter (~$200 for the whole setup and can run multiple lights all day, but heavy). If I'm able to employ a cart on a job, the battery/inverter box just lives on the cart and provides AC power anywhere. The large v-mounts are better when you need totally silent running or a lower profile, quicker mobility, etc... you'll know your applications.

FWIW I wound up landing on the Intellytech X-100's for the simple reasons that they're bi-color and focusable without need for any fresnel accessories. They lack a little in punch, but I have other lights for that. Also helps that they're slave-labor free.

With the larger COB LED fixtures, like the 600d, It wouldn’t surprise me in the least, and may actually surprise me if they’re not, putting off as much or more heat overall than their traditional HMI counterparts, because of the other added electronics that aren’t necessary with our old “dumb” lights. The 600 has a fan in the ballast and the head. My 800 watt HMI’s don’t.

Are you sure about that last comment regarding Intellytech? I know they’re based in CO, but I’m pretty sure the lights are made in a factory in China, just like so many others are. I love the lights of theirs that I own, but they feel like lower-to-mid tier build quality that would come out of a mass-production Chinese factory. Now, I am talking about their Litecloth panels. I’ve never laid hands on one of their Light Cannon fixtures.

 

[Liam Hall]

Also helps that they're slave-labor free.

Who's lights are using slave labour? I must have missed that news.

 

[mcbob]

Are you sure about that last comment regarding Intellytech? I know they’re based in CO, but I’m pretty sure the lights are made in a factory in China, just like so many others are. I love the lights of theirs that I own, but they feel like lower-to-mid tier build quality that would come out of a mass-production Chinese factory. Now, I am talking about their Litecloth panels. I’ve never laid hands on one of their Light Cannon fixtures.

To be honest, with as convoluted as supply chains are nowadays, especially with the recent (and not at all unexpected) revelations about Apple, I can't be absolutely sure... however, when ordering the X-100's and a pair of LC-120's, I asked and was told that manufacture was in the US and India. Whether I was being lied to or not, who knows any more.

 

[Run&Gun]

To be honest, with as convoluted as supply chains are nowadays, especially with the recent (and not at all unexpected) revelations about Apple, I can't be absolutely sure... however, when ordering the X-100's and a pair of LC-120's, I asked and was told that manufacture was in the US and India. Whether I was being lied to or not, who knows any more.

You could be right. I was making a presumption based on the feel of the build quality(again, I love the quality of light) and reviews from others noting the similarities of design and feel of other low-cost LED fixtures. Maybe “final assembly” could be taking place in the US or India...

BTW: I just saw that they have LiteCloth 2.0 fixtures with new cables that “click-in”(non screw) and PowerCON cables for AC connection and and the PSU and controller are all one, small, streamlined unit, now. I’ve always hated the janky-*ss PSU/Controller set-up. I want to sell my two old 160’s and get two new ones. But I’d probably only get a fraction for my older ones.

 

[mcbob]

BTW: I just saw that they have LiteCloth 2.0 fixtures with new cables that “click-in”(non screw) and PowerCON cables for AC connection and and the PSU and controller are all one, small, streamlined unit, now. I’ve always hated the janky-*ss PSU/Controller set-up. I want to sell my two old 160’s and get two new ones. But I’d probably only get a fraction for my older ones.

you and I must've been doing and thinking the exact same thing in between posts

 

[Peter C.]

We're on to Chinese labor. So let me get this straight if it's well made that means the labor is also treated well. Reminds me of my sister who won't buy an iPhone because of slave labor. So that wouldn't invalidate your quality to labor treatment equation. Until they have some sort of labor standard that a product can meet and be labeled as such, it doesn't make sense making arbitrary moral decisions that aren't based on facts.

 

[puredrifting]

We're on to Chinese labor. So let me get this straight if it's well made that means the labor is also treated well. Reminds me of my sister who won't buy an iPhone because of slave labor. So that wouldn't invalidate your quality to labor treatment equation. Until they have some sort of labor standard that a product can meet and be labeled as such, it doesn't make sense making arbitrary moral decisions that aren't based on facts.

We can buy "fairtrade" coffee, why not a "manufactureed without the use of slave labor" label for the electronics we buy?
Totally voluntary and in order to use the brand/logo, the manufacturer has to prove to the governing body that their labor is well treated, not abused and
paid fairly based upon the economy of the worker's area. I'd pay a premium for that, do you think most in our business would?

 

[Peter C.]

We can buy "fairtrade" coffee, why not a "manufactureed without the use of slave labor" label for the electronics we buy?
Totally voluntary and in order to use the brand/logo, the manufacturer has to prove to the governing body that their labor is well treated, not abused and
paid fairly based upon the economy of the worker's area. I'd pay a premium for that, do you think most in our business would?

I'm all for that idea. I think if a big company like Apple, Sony, Canon, or even non tech companies did it the rest of the industry would follow suit. I guess the difficulty would be what standard constitutes non slave labor. What conditions, how much is a fair wage in China, who would be allowed to certify...

While I was thinking this over I first thought maybe companies could sell like in the grocery store the same product a normal and then a more expensive "fair trade". But I think they couldn't do that because if you had a non-slave labor iPhone version then that would be admitting the rest of your products are slave labor.

Besides that point I think something could be done and even if it was flawed it would be a step in the right direction. Because I think if given a chance to pay let say a few dollars or percent more there would be a substantial group of people who would do it. Especially if there was a recognizable symbol or branding.

 

[Run&Gun]

you and I must've been doing and thinking the exact same thing in between posts

Small damn world, sometimes... Lol

 

[Run&Gun]

We can buy "fairtrade" coffee, why not a "manufactureed without the use of slave labor" label for the electronics we buy?
Totally voluntary and in order to use the brand/logo, the manufacturer has to prove to the governing body that their labor is well treated, not abused and
paid fairly based upon the economy of the worker's area. I'd pay a premium for that, do you think most in our business would?

Not saying it's not a good idea, but no way in hell. So many in this business only care about how cheaply something can be done or bought. Otherwise the "knock-off" and bargain gear market would have never become so huge, so quickly.

 

[firehawk]

I'm for supporting non-slave labor products too as well as American made products. But Americans proved long ago and repeatedly that they will not pay even slightly more for a product made in America by American workers raising American families vs the Chinese/Taiwan/etc made imports. "We" just don't care, in large. Thats regarding consumer products. However, when it comes to pro-sumer production gear is it any different? I don't thnk so as mentioned above with the knock-off bargain gear becoming so huge. It's all about $$.

Thanks for all the various interesting discussions in this thread including the information about the COB lights

 

[ahalpert]

With the larger COB LED fixtures, like the 600d, It wouldn’t surprise me in the least, and may actually surprise me if they’re not, putting off as much or more heat overall than their traditional HMI counterparts, because of the other added electronics that aren’t necessary with our old “dumb” lights. The 600 has a fan in the ballast and the head. My 800 watt HMI’s don’t.

Are you sure about that last comment regarding Intellytech? I know they’re based in CO, but I’m pretty sure the lights are made in a factory in China, just like so many others are. I love the lights of theirs that I own, but they feel like lower-to-mid tier build quality that would come out of a mass-production Chinese factory. Now, I am talking about their Litecloth panels. I’ve never laid hands on one of their Light Cannon fixtures.

Dont the LEDs just have fans because they have a lower heat tolerance than HMI? But yeah good CRI LEDs have similar lumens/watt to HMI so I would imagine that heat output might be similar aside from the fact that the same electrical current will produce the same heat from resistance (maybe depending on cabling and the pathway?)

 

[ahalpert]

Not saying it's not a good idea, but no way in hell. So many in this business only care about how cheaply something can be done or bought. Otherwise the "knock-off" and bargain gear market would have never become so huge, so quickly.

I disagree. I dont know how many people would pay more money for fair labor.

But personally, I'm willing to compromise on product quality to save money as long as the product is "good enough". Saving money by taking it out of someone else's flesh is a totally different consideration.

But is there a single electronics manufacturer who would currently qualify for such a certificate? Bye bye, M1!

Supposedly China has agreed to move towards entering international agreements on slave labor as part of its recent trade deal with the EU. But is it just a fig leaf?

 

[Run&Gun]

Posted this on the Nova/600d thread, too:

Slightly bored and messing around with the 600d today... I mentioned earlier just how much heat I felt coming from the front of the light when it was dialed up. You cannot hold your hand directly in front of the reflector for long at 100%, so I was curious just how much heat the COB is throwing. I got my no-contact thermometer and checked the COB at .1% and got a reading around 80F something degrees. Then I cranked it to 100%. Immediately it was over 138F degrees. Then checked again, maybe 10 seconds later or, and it was over 154 F. Next I grabbed a receipt laying on the counter and held it just inside the reflector. Within seconds, the receipt started to smoke and it turned black (thermal paper).

These things are absolutely no joke, and care should be taken when using them. I actually feel like these may be more dangerous than real HMI’s, because most people respect HMI’s, but because of everyone’s perception of LED’s, at least the relatively low powered ones we’ve been using over the last decade or so, they are kind of treated and viewed as toys, in a way. I kind of have some trepidation now about pointing this thing directly at talent, because I think the large, ultra bright COB may be much harder on the eyes if someone would accidentally look into it vs. the reflector on my 800 HMI. The F10 fresnel can’t get here soon enough...

 

[Run&Gun]

Dont the LEDs just have fans because they have a lower heat tolerance than HMI? But yeah good CRI LEDs have similar lumens/watt to HMI so I would imagine that heat output might be similar aside from the fact that the same electrical current will produce the same heat from resistance (maybe depending on cabling and the pathway?)

That’s kind of my point. Our “old” HMI’s and tungsten fixtures don’t need active cooling to keep delicate electronics cool(below a certain level, more correctly). It goes back to what I say, everything has trade offs.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

I was trying to patent a lighting panel that had thousands of fireflies in it and market it as the first video light that is truly without heat. I even hooked up with a worm bait manufacturer named Gary's Big Worms and was able to get some big packages of worm bait to include with the lights so the owners could trap food to keep the light going. Unfortunately, PETA shot it down and as such I'm still a schnook freelance DP who eats egg noodles and ketchup.