used neumann - good deal?

Oh, nice... good info to know.

Haha... morons cable... so I take it that's not going to be of any advantage buying that morons cable...

Hey, something else came to mind... Which scenario would give me less self-noise (or hiss):

A: MKH416 straight to HVX with gain boosted to match output 'hotness' of AT4073a.

B: AT4073a straight to HVX.

The reason I ask is because I found a pretty good deal on an MKH416, so price value is no longer a factor. Now I am only concerned with what will give me the cleanest sound of the two scenarios above.

Another thing that is attracting me to the MKH416 is that everyone says it's built like a tank and is very durable... and I like durable :). But, then again, nobody seems to be having any troubles with the AT4073a either.
 
Last edited:
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you were specifically saying that the MKH416 scenario would have less self-noise. Thanks.
 
do a search on the top 5 shotguns and you will see. The 4073 is a great mic, but you may always long for the 416 (that is how I would feel, could just be me though).
 
Hey,

Ya, I know it... I have done a ton of research and listened to a lot of clips actually. I know the main models like the ones you mentioned and their general 'ranking' amongst each other.


But, I am using a camera mounted mic. As Oleg had mentioned before, the AT4073a puts out a hot signal, thus eliminating the need for as much gain in the camera pre-amps or in post.

Now, I understand the differences between the 4073 and the 416 (at least based on the forums here). I also understand that many people prefer the sound of the 416. Well, most of these people seem to work with narrative where they can use external pre-amps. For me to use one would be really cumbersome and limiting for the work that I do.

Now, my question is specifically this:

Will I hear more self-noise (or hiss) in my final recording with:

A: An AT4073a and the camera pre-amp gain at neutral, or

B: An MKH416 and the camera gain pre-amp gain boosted to match the hot out-put of the AT4073a.
 
Without going back and getting the specs, I think the AT might be like 6db hotter and I will tell you, you will not notice a noise difference between these mics mounted on your camera. In a quiet environment and the mics 1 foot from the subject you might perceive it but not mounted on the camera in an uncontrolled situation.

Basically, you will be hard pressed to tell a Schoeps from a Rode at 8 to 10 feet.

If you never intend to use the mic off-camera I would go with whatever is cheaper and the one that has a wider pattern; the 4073. Honestly would even drop down to the Rode if it is an on-cam mic.

Cheers
 
i would drop rode if i ever think it will go from the camera .
then if you have that one the rode is cheap enouth as asecend microphone .
 
Cool- thanks again guys.

Oleg, I am not sure I follow what you are saying...

I thought the rode was really inferior to the 4073 and 416...?
 
for camera use only it can work as what camera microphone stand for - nothing good .but it good that it will be there , if you need take it from the camera and use in other places use better mic .
 
Ah, so your saying I might as well go with the rode if I am using it only on camera?

I will be staying on camera. I dont understand why everyone says on-camera audio is 'no-good'. I mean, I really don't... I am not saying that defensively...

I mean I can understand it for shots where you need to record people on-the-spot... But, as I have explained my situation a few times now, that is not my primary audio concern.

So, if I wanted a really crisp and clean sound-clip of... say, a cricket... how would it be any different if I went up to it with the mic on the camera as opposed to having it on a stick with a longer wire running to the camera...

Further, I don't want to buy a crappy mic just because it is going to be 'on-camera'. Again, you guys might not think it is important what mic to buy if you are going 'on'camera' because any of them wouldn't work well as a camera-mount for the type of flicks you are making... but for me, I need good recordings and they hardly ever need to be the original sound of what is happening on screen... meaning I can record footage for just audio and mix it in later...

I dont know, I am getting tired of talking about this. I feel like we keep going in loops here... I really feel like the opinions I keep getting are going back to the narrative-film professional sound perspective of "either get a good mic and put it on a boom, or you might as well get a crappy mic if you are going on camera". Please, listen, there are other styles of shooting than narrative or documentary where it is primarily people talking that are recorded live. My needs are different than this...

So, which shotty has the longest reach? MKH416? AT4073a? Pigeon master 5000?
 
djembeplay said:
I really feel like the opinions I keep getting are going back to the narrative-film professional sound perspective of "either get a good mic and put it on a boom, or you might as well get a crappy mic if you are going on camera". Please, listen, there are other styles of shooting than narrative or documentary where it is primarily people talking that are recorded live. My needs are different than this...
Click to expand...

djembeplay,
I am not an audio pro, just a documentary filmmaker with good ears about to embark on an 18 months trip where I often will have to shoot on my own. So I have been thinking about camera mics etc. quite a lot and along similar lines as you have.

From my previous experience I can just tell you the following: on-camera mics hardly ever give you the clean and crisp results you are longing for, that's the problem. They pick up camera noise, are prone to handling noise, you seldom have the level of control you wish, pre-amps are inferior compared to pro-equipment (once you heard the difference its difficult to go back...), etc.
The sound you get is always the result of a whole chain - from mic position, to equipment ergonomics (weight, etc.), wind protection and shock mount, pre-amps, the microphone and the recording device. The weakest link makes the sound. I just never got the crips and clear sound from a camera mounted mic.
That's why it makes sense not to waste money on the most expensive mic in your situation. The AT is probably your choice. You can't go wrong with that. Consider it to be a first step towards crisp and clean audio, experiment, listen with your own ears and go further if need arises.

But on a more general basis, what to do when you need good sound and are at least in part alone? At the moment I think I'll leave my KMR81 at home in favour of a Sennheiser wireless G2 and an Oktava/BBG/K-SSM combo (following the mantra on this board). Why? Because wireless is almost the only way I confidently get acceptable sound for interviews when I am alone (and the subject is not seated) and a hyper is much more versatile for my way of shooting. Furthermore I wouldn't be able to take the blimp for the KMR anyway which would give me a lot of problems outdoors. So for me the whole discussion finally meant: no shootgun at all for my next project.

Martin​
 
I'll copy that, coming from the same school, not being a soundpro either today, but working with mkh416 and many others 20 years ago, for good soundrecording you need to be close to the subject. That's it. Booming and a soundman with a mixer and external recorder prefers.

No on camera mic can do that 'close recording' on a moving subject better then a nice lav if you work alone. If its a sitdown interview, set up a boomstand with mic (like the 480/ck63) close to the talent. And the rode is a better choice for the build in mic... but there is no need to use a mkh60 as camera mic alone.
 
Last edited:
get the 416 if you plan on using it on a boom later (or for v/o). If you are never going to get a boom, just get the audio technica (it would still be good on a boom later and has a slightly wider pattern).

Get Jay Rose's books
 
Hey,

Alright thanks a ton for the info guys. I think I am all set on what direction I am going to go. I think I will try the AT4073a on camera and pick up some wireless lavs.

Thanks again!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top