Urgent help needed with Audio!

J

Janos

Member
Forgive this aspiring Newbie, but I need help, tonight!

I'm filming on a windy island in the Atlantic soon, and will have to web-purchase the microphone before sunrise (it's 5pm now).

I'm very aware that there are multiple threads on the "best mic" discussion - I continue to read through them. But given my limited knowledge of mics, I am only able to glean so much at a time.

Would the users that read this tonight be so kind as to give their ideas on a decent microphone, for dialogue, and ocassional environmental sound recording, in this sort of environment? The island has dunes, fields of grain, an old church, and waves, although I'll be filming on the 'protected' side of the island (beach facing the mainland).

Whatever Mic I get, I'll need to be able to hook it up to a good windscreen, obviously - and availability at B&H is a big, big, plus.

Soooo....any ideas?

A very grateful (and slightly embarrassed) new Dvx100a User
 
how much do you want to spend ? and dont tell me ass less aspossible - maximum budget please.
-
i understand that the most shots are exterior are they?
and you are going straight to the camera ,do you?
do you need it as camera mike or as one on the boom?
 
Whoops, sorry - meant to post that. Let's say $400-700.

I'd prefer to get a slightly lower-quality mic, and a great windscreen, then a high-quality mic with a poor windscreen, etc.

For this - all the shots will be exterior. I'll have a couple intimate dialogues, which I'll boom, and otherwise, I'll be looking to capture some of the 'sounds' of the island itself, the same way.

My preference in Microphones (and gear) is reliability. I don't need something that sounds crystal-clear after extensive monitoring...I'm looking for something that is reliable at giving me good sound in wind, and can hook into the DVX100a.

Thanks.
 
http://www.trewaudio.com/images/consign/3720.jpg
they want 425 on that - but i think it would go for 100 less , try negotiate sometimes it work .
its a good mount and windshield even it used
mike - i say if you get this one for 350
add 550 for 4073 . thats 900 but this is will work for sure

if not your option is to buy softy with suspension from k-teck and 4073 to match the 700

check the ebay for used ricote blimp and suspension
 
i say the mike is crap and the softy never give you the best wind protection , not to mention the bumps of wind over the exposed side of the mike.
this is IMO
but its your money:-)
 
Just forget to mention the Wind Boss from PSC - but since i never worked with, i don't know how much it effective
 
So, it looks like, what I need most basically is

1. A "zeppelin" like the wind boss

2. A solid microphone. I'm surprised you don't like the at897, since it seems to be popular here - what's the reason?
 
on that note, let me stress, I'm looking for 'warm' sound in a variety of environments - ranging from indoors to outdoors.

While I realize that there is no perfect mic that does everything - is the 4073 the right choice - or should I be looking for a "shorter" shotgun, etc?

Thanks for the help so far,
Janos
 
Janos said:
So, it looks like, what I need most basically is

1. A "zeppelin" like the wind boss

2. A solid microphone. I'm surprised you don't like the at897, since it seems to be popular here - what's the reason?
Click to expand...

i dont know how good is is the wind boss for heavy wind , might be good , might be not .
i surprise you bought dvx i know better cameras even that one is quit popular here :-)
this is fur away back from what is my limits to use with :-)
the 4073 is much better sounding mike , more accurate and have much better response .
i dont use it 2 since have better, but i can guarantee you that i will work with that one if i dont have my .
the 4073 is a short shotgun and like every shotgun it not so good for re verb situations , but at least it good outside.
for interior buy another mike , start with octava its another 185 $
the life is beech, you cant win with one mike as you cant win with one lens
 
Exile has actually offered some great advice. The problem with your issue is that you are looking for a shotgun for interior dialogue and I don't think that's your best option. If you are really wanting the best of all worlds the 897 is not a bad mic, but there is no one mic that will work for everything.

The softie recommended is a good one. Check out this thread and that is what I recommend. It will get you the mic you want at the budget that you are looking at, but without wind protection: http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=35667

There are a lot of different companies that you can order from, but I like RVACanada.com (recommended by MattinSTL). I have spoken with them, and they are really good informative people. B&H is going to be a special order, but in general, this is the best selection for you. Call RVA, with the canadian vs. us dollar conversion you will be getting pretty much a free softie. They will get everything set up for you (Nope, I am not pitching this store).

Best of luck to you.
 
Okay, let me add a little weirdness to this discussion...

I actually have this microphone; the C-747:
http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,7,id,243,pid,243,_language,EN.html

What do you think of trying to operate this with the PSC Windboss - just plain crazy...?

It's a
tiny shotgun microphone designed for exacting orchestral, choir, podium, and boardroom applications. Flat, extended frequency response makes it suitable for high quality live music recording, while the frequency-independent pattern provides consistent off-axis rejection to control ambient noise and feedback in acoustically difficult environments. A switchable LF rolloff filter suppresses mechanical noise. The low-impedance transformerless preamp operates on 9 to 52 V phantom power.
Click to expand...

with a rep for being very "shotgun"...opinions?



Also, thanks for the store reccomendation, I'll keep it in mind, as I'm actually in Canada, but filming in the US. I really need to go with B&H if possible - I need to know that the item is in stock, and I can get it overnight, ASAP
 
this is a table mike , i never used it on boom and i never used it outside inside windshield - sorry cant help you ,
sounds ok on the podium when it 40 cm from the speaker mouth , check it with 2-3 feet overhead outside , might be you have a winner:-)
not to mention you can go with small rycote zeppelin ( you have 2 on trew site for 375)
inc furry
if it actually work for you , cut the cable about 30 cm from the mike and place the xlr there ( the xlr carry 48 to bias converter, this is electrt mike ) ,so you can place it on the handle and work normally with xlr cables
 
RVA can get it to you next day.

The problem with B&H is that you are limited to what they actually have in stock. You are going to be shooting a project, you need to get the best possible audio.

People are always under estimating the importance of audio when what you hear is more of an experience than what you see.

In my opinion with your time and budget constraint I cannot come up with an idea package for you that is better than what you have already heard from me. The best solution for you is to call RVA and have them overnight it to you tomorrow morning. There is no difference between them and B&H. Get the SE300B, CK93, CK98. There you have your interior mic (hyper cardiod) & exterior mic (shotgun), and you are all set up.

If you must go with B&H then think about the 4073a for your shotgun and call www.sound-room.com tomorrow and see if they will overnight you an Oktava. This has been discussed like crazy in other threads.

At the end of the day, ask any audio person who is a professional, enthusiast, or just interested in sound, and you will instantly know that there is NO ONE MIC to do everything.

If you are not happy with that AKG set up, there are a hundred of people here who will buy it off you at less than a 10% discount. Trust me, this is the best solution for you.
 
Here's another idea, screw it and get a MKH416, then again, it wont be ideal for interiors and you're looking at +$1000USD.

Of course, your other option, and YOUR BEST OPTION is this.

Take the $700 that you would spend on a mic and hire an operator. They will bring their own kit, but more importantly than that, you get an experienced operator. Post something in the jobs section. This is the best option for you because if you are ordering this equipement now, honestly, you're not going to have the time to learn the nuances of the equipement and you will need an operator anyway.

Why are people always so against hiring a sound person?
 
Janos said:
I don't need something that sounds crystal-clear after extensive monitoring...
Click to expand...

Yankee nailed your problem right there. All mics need "extensive monitoring". There is no magic mic at any price that will sound good if you don't use it right (meaning you will need a soundman...or woman).

In heavy wind you will need a zepplin not a softie. The 4073 is a good mic but the 416 is a great mic that will operate in pooring rain (to a certain degree). It is a tank. The 4073 will certainly do but for the few hundred more, the 416 is far better for harsh conditions.

But as Yankee said, hiring a sound guy is the best thing to do here. All the other options will leave you with some bad compremises.

The popularity of the 897 is purely a price issue. It sounds like crap but if you want the cheapest shotgun mic that will record sound, some people find it acceptable.

Best
 
Thanks for the advice -

I've taken the c747 outside and tested it with an actor talking, near a busy street.

As you know, I'm a newbie, so take my observations with the appropriate skepticism.

From what I could tell, the C-747 sounded good, very clear. Almost too clear actually. The sound wasn't "tinny" - but it was very sharp. I suppose that's what you should expect from a shotgun of this type, especially given its intended use.

I did a few tests moving the microphone to different lengths and positions while the person was speaking.

The best sound was about a foot. I guess that's normal. I don't know.

The sound continued to very reliably pick-up at 2-3 feet. The "off-axis" noise was dramatically minimized. However, since were were standing near a sidewalk, and the mic was pointed down, I was still getting some of the lower tones from the passing automobiles. They didn't wash out the speaker at all though, and of course, you don't point a shotgun mic at a 'room-like' sound-reflective surface, anyway, from what I understand.

The sound continued to pick up well and minimize off-axis noise even at 4 feet.

As a test, I turned the mic levels up considerably, to get a better sense of the difference between the speaking voice, and the noise washing in from the street. It was considerable.

So, all in all, I feel that this microphone, the C747 may actually work for the island, if it's placed in a zeppelin. Please share your critical thoughts or opinions - I value them.

So right now, I'm thinking (c747 & PSC Windboss). The only concern I have is that the c747 is a 'tiny' mic - only 9mm in diameter. Does anyone know if that would be an issue in fixing it to the Zeppelin?

Thanks VERY MUCH, and please share your ideas.


Regarding the AKG setup - makes a lot of sense to me. I really only need the shotgun at the moment, I think..I'm sorry to ask a recurrent and clumsy question - but as these things go - is the general consensus that the c93 has a fairly warm sound for a shotgun mic?



About RVA - I should have been more clear - the reason I prefer B&H right now, is because it can be difficult to verify Shipping to America, when using a Canadian Credit Card. I think it's due to some law - basically - everytime I've ordered from a company, for the first time, my order is 'held' or 'cancelled' until they can verify that the phone number I've given for the shipping is listed to the address.

In this age of cell phones, etc , that can take some time. And that's if the company has a good system in place - I've had to call in and remind them to do it, or call and re-order, more than once.

B&H has me listed as verified though, and that's why I'd like to go through them - I have no time to wait - and the location is *remote*.
 
A quick note on the 416.

From what I can tell, (416 & Zeppelin) would be perfect for this situation.
We just don't have the budget though.

We will actually have an experienced videographer with us, helping with sound, but I have to provide the equipment, basically.
 
wabbit said:
Yankee nailed your problem right there.
Click to expand...

Well thank you!

wabbit said:
But as Yankee said, hiring a sound guy is the best thing to do here. All the other options will leave you with some bad compremises
Click to expand...

Best option for you & Wabbit know's what's up!

Janos said:
Thanks for the advice -

I've taken the c747 outside and tested it with an actor talking, near a busy street.

As you know, I'm a newbie, so take my observations with the appropriate skepticism.

From what I could tell, the C-747 sounded good, very clear. Almost too clear actually. The sound wasn't "tinny" - but it was very sharp. I suppose that's what you should expect from a shotgun of this type, especially given its intended use.

I did a few tests moving the microphone to different lengths and positions while the person was speaking.

The best sound was about a foot. I guess that's normal. I don't know.

The sound continued to very reliably pick-up at 2-3 feet. The "off-axis" noise was dramatically minimized. However, since were were standing near a sidewalk, and the mic was pointed down, I was still getting some of the lower tones from the passing automobiles. They didn't wash out the speaker at all though, and of course, you don't point a shotgun mic at a 'room-like' sound-reflective surface, anyway, from what I understand.

The sound continued to pick up well and minimize off-axis noise even at 4 feet.

As a test, I turned the mic levels up considerably, to get a better sense of the difference between the speaking voice, and the noise washing in from the street. It was considerable.

So, all in all, I feel that this microphone, the C747 may actually work for the island, if it's placed in a zeppelin. Please share your critical thoughts or opinions - I value them.

So right now, I'm thinking (c747 & PSC Windboss). The only concern I have is that the c747 is a 'tiny' mic - only 9mm in diameter. Does anyone know if that would be an issue in fixing it to the Zeppelin?

Thanks VERY MUCH, and please share your ideas.


Regarding the AKG setup - makes a lot of sense to me. I really only need the shotgun at the moment, I think..I'm sorry to ask a recurrent and clumsy question - but as these things go - is the general consensus that the c93 has a fairly warm sound for a shotgun mic?



About RVA - I should have been more clear - the reason I prefer B&H right now, is because it can be difficult to verify Shipping to America, when using a Canadian Credit Card. I think it's due to some law - basically - everytime I've ordered from a company, for the first time, my order is 'held' or 'cancelled' until they can verify that the phone number I've given for the shipping is listed to the address.

In this age of cell phones, etc , that can take some time. And that's if the company has a good system in place - I've had to call in and remind them to do it, or call and re-order, more than once.

B&H has me listed as verified though, and that's why I'd like to go through them - I have no time to wait - and the location is *remote*.
Click to expand...

Still not sold on the idea of this mic. Your best option is to hire someone. Where are you shooting? I am sure you could find someone on the board to hire within your budget? How long are you shooting? I'm just saying you have a lot more options than you are thinking and ultimately you are not going to get the sound you are looking for. The whole b&h thing, it depends on when you are leaving, either way, you're looking for short cuts. Look at the above signature: good, fast, cheap. Pick any two. You're looking for all of them.

The cheapest and best option is to hire someone. I know it sucks to pay for a service and not have anything material to show for it, but I'm telling you, as I gear up for my big project, I am hiring a sound person, make up person, and anything else I can afford. Filmmaking is collabrative not because it helps the creative process, but because one person can't do it all. Even with this person you know, you have no guarantee of having good sound.

I think sound is too important to leave to chance, and that is what it sounds like you're doing.
 
Janos said:
Regarding the AKG setup - makes a lot of sense to me. I really only need the shotgun at the moment, I think..I'm sorry to ask a recurrent and clumsy question - but as these things go - is the general consensus that the c93 has a fairly warm sound for a shotgun mic?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I missed this question earlier.

I own the CK93 and used to have the 4073a. I sold the 4073a after a couple of weeks of owning it after I had the CK93 for two days.

As I have said in other posts, and this is simply my opinion between the two, they have more in common than seperates them. They are both high performing shotguns with similar off axis and rear rejection. The difference in the overall tonal quality is minimal and found most often in the mid range. I enjoy the sound of the CK93, but there is something about the 4073a that in my opinion gives it a slight edge.

I own three shotguns now. CK93, AT835b, & MKH416. The differences between them are significant. I like the AT835 because it is a nice little mic that is built like a tank. It highlights the extreme ranges and leaves holes in the mids, but overall it is a mic that can take a beating and keep on ticking. I like the CK93 because it is a modular system that sounds better than the 835b and can work in almost any situation. It has excellent rear rejection, it has a great tonal response, and it is modular. Wait, did I mention that it is modular. The frequency response of the CK93 is also dead on! It has a great reproduction and seems to be perfectly balanced, it is the only mic that you set input at 0 and you're golden (for prime settings, of course). Finally, my newest acquisition, the MKH416. I have owned this mic for a massive 48 hours. So far I have done just a couple of tests with it here in the house, but it is a great mic. I like the response range, even indoors, and it has excellent rejection from both off axis and rear. It seems to have the most pure reproduction of sound that I have heard so far of the three mics.

Now, all these things being equal let me say this: I will never use any of these microphones indoors. NEVER. Why? Because shotguns are not designed for interior use. Go to www.tyford.com and read some of Ty's information regarding mics. He will let you know that for interiors you do not want to play around with shotguns. Reverb and reflection are going to be awfull with interiors.

Everything being equal, I stand by the suggestion I previously made. Post something in the job section. I am sure one of the pro's or enthusiasts in whatever area you are shooting would be more than happy to volunteer their time in exchange for a small fee.

One final note: I am not a professional by any means, and would never work sound for anyone's projects other than my own, even then, as I have said, I prefer to hire someone. I like getting mics because sound to me is interesting. I think it is actually a lot simpler than most people want to make it out to be.

Now, I'm going shopping for some lavs... Don't have any of those in my kit yet.
 
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