Unwanted flat lighting

[DDirector]

This happened to be a few times.
I'm trying to light someone but in the end the person looks a bit flat when I wasn't trying to make it be like that.

I'm lighting a room with practicals, and some additional light above making it seem as though it were the practical lights lighting the room.
Then, I figured that one end of the room is fairly lit, while the other is way under exposed. So, I ended up throwing a light and bouncing it of a ceiling high up.
It added some light, but then it seemed to diminish the contrast ratio. Not making it flat-flat. But it wasn't all that noticeable. 2-1 is used often, but its not very noticeable. So, it looks somewhat flat.

If I haven't bounced that light, it would have been very dark. Way too dark.
I was hoping to get f/4, but because of the lack of light, I had to shoot 2.8 and then I still struggled.

Lighting with Kino's in a fairly big room, isn't all that great. Especially when they are 10ft off the ground. Not much light.

I don't know how to deal with this when there isn't enough light and you are shooting pretty much wide open, you want to increase ambiance level, but then end up shooting almost flat.
This happened twice to me. The first time we barely had any power. So, there wasn't much of a choice in lighting. Actors were always facing the shadows, so I had to change lighting, then when shot straight at their face, it was flat.

 

[Paper_bag]

Just $0.02 (to be taken with salt -- I'll readily admit to being not terribly experienced):

-- For wider shots and faces, perhaps use dedolight or something similar with some throw to add modelling.

-- For close-ups, relight enough to add more contrast, but not so much that you've got a continuity problem.

-- For wide generally, give depth to overall image by composing it so that there's a bit of background, having overlapping objects in frame, and separating subject from background with lighting, production design colours, etc.

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Lighting with Kino's in a fairly big room, isn't all that great. Especially when they are 10ft off the ground. Not much light.

From the Photometric specs on the Kinoflow page for the 'diva-lite', at 10 ft, the 400 yields 28 footcandles, and the 200, 14 fc.

In either case, for a 100 ISO, f/2.8 @ 24 fps @ 1/50, one needs 100 fc. Now, since you want 1 stop under, for your ratios, then you can have 50 fc, (or 25 fc for two stops under).

If this is your 'fill', then your key has to be 100.

Doesn't sound like you had enough light for the key, and compensated by having even less light for the fill...

 

[Shooter]

This happened twice to me. The first time we barely had any power. So, there wasn't much of a choice in lighting. Actors were always facing the shadows, so I had to change lighting, then when shot straight at their face, it was flat.

Sounds to me that you are not shifting your lights or planning the scene out.

One way is to plan around where the light is motivated from in the scene then shoot angles in an order that is efficient and effective. ie less shifting of lights and gear the better.

Obviously planning must happen with the Director when blocking a scene with actors.

-- For close-ups, relight enough to add more contrast, but not so much that you've got a continuity problem.

Not advice that I would follow. Its a bit more "traditional" to shoot close ups a little softer / less contrast than wide shots. Thats because its easier to do and also a little more flattering. BUT.. relighting for the close ups is good advice.

FWIW - lighting issues such as yours are one reason that multicam shooting is difficult and complex for drama / narrative work.

Next: Lack of light. Get more lights, use higher ISO. Thats your role as D.P.

 

[RyanT]

Just be careful with bouncing lights into the ceiling unless you want it to be flat.

Also, it sounds like your key isn't strong enough, then you're trying to compensate the lack of stop by adding more fill. It's difficult to light with practicals in the scene and not have them blow out. Thats because if they are powerful enough to light the scene, if you see them in the frame they will be way over. I'm sure you know about all of this already, but here's a few different routes you can go.

Add a light mimicking what the practical would do and then put the practical on a dimmer, dimming the practical down to a reasonable level.

Light with practicals, but just keep them off camera.

Light with practicals and just let them over expose in the shot. Not the prettiest, but could be appropriate for some scenes.

Once you get this set up you can either do an overall fill like a light being bounced into the ceiling, or just selectively add fill into portions of the room where things may be too dark. Shooter has a great suggestion of planning the action around the lighting...It's either that or change the set dressing to accompany their action and allow the lighting to work with what they'd like to do. If how they're going to be talking for the whole scene would mean they would be front-lit, just move your practicals into a position where you can avoid that.

Good luck, hope this helps.

 

[DDirector]

I had practicals, and I knew it wouldnt be strong to light the room thats why I used Chimeras to mimic the light from the practicals. It did work. But it just wasn't strong enough to fill the room nicely, I guess. Its as though the diffusion on these were way too thick and as a result, it wasn't strong enough.
Two practicals on either side of the wall with 2 Med. chimera pancakes above them.

Right in the middle of the bed it was at 2.8, but at the end of the bed and the space in front of the bed was about a 1.4 - give or take. Where my actors would mainly be acting. That was about 1.5 stops under what the lens was capable of shooting.

I knew exactly where the actors would be as the director and i planned it all out way in advance. But, on set it just turned out way too dark, and not how I wanted it. The opposite side of the room by the bed had no lights. There was no room for any, and we wanted it a tad darker anyways, but the lights weren't as strong as I thought they would have been. We also kept the washroom door open to give some light from the opposite side of their faces.

I wanted that slight darker mood, but still have it fairly lit - example: Derailed motel scene.

So, we added some ambient light by shooting it straight up. We got some light, not much. But then it seemed as though they were starting to get flat looking. Even though they were constantly looking sideways to the lights.
We also had a window, and the gag was the window looked straight onto a brick wall 2ft away. There was a light on that wall and it shined into the room. But, when we did it, it didn't look all that great anymore.

 

[darrellayer]

It sounds like the lighting is flat because you keep flattening it out. Stop filling so hard and let the shadows go. If you're shooting a moody piece let it get moody. I would also either up the power of the lights you are using or gain up the camera. Just remember without shadow the light is meaningless. also cut light from parts of objects, such as putting a top chop on the back wall when you light it. The only other advice I would say is light the backgound and the character seperately, it sounds like you're trying to paint everything with one brush.
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/aadams
Check this out for ideas for lighting and break downs of some nice shots. you'll have to dig because not every entry is lighting but the advice is solid.
Good luck.

 

[Shooter]

Right in the middle of the bed it was at 2.8, but at the end of the bed and the space in front of the bed was about a 1.4 - give or take. Where my actors would mainly be acting. That was about 1.5 stops under what the lens was capable of shooting.

Thats an interesting (and telling) comment and maybe part of your issue
The lens does not stop "working" at minimum aperture. ie you do not have to expose every part of the scene above max wide aperture. If f2.8 is where you want to expose at (eg key) ...your scene dynamic range will still be represented below that.

Do a test. Shoot a perfectly exposed grey scale (black thru white) at maximum wide aperture eg f2.8. You will see that the lens exposes all the way down to black.