Typical cost of a 45 minute production?

[csselement]

I'm trying to figure out what to charge for this:

I just spent the last 3 days in front of my computer RUSHING to finish editing a video that was poorly planned for (not by me). i spent every hour for 3 days editing, creating narration, going through tapes to find the material sent to me, etc. i even skipped my regular job for a day to finish this.

the production is over 45 minutes in length. i created a custom dvd menu, shot most of the footage myself, edited the entire thing, created nearly 45 minutes worth of narration, and mastered it to dvd for duplication.

what would you say this would cost? the client is using it for advertising and business purposes.

 

[thisiswells]

bill by the hour. the math is simple when HR equals hourly rate times NH the number of hours.
HR x NH = AYGP or Amount You Get Paid.

You're welcome, sir.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

What did you agree on with the client before you took the job?

 

[csselement]

What did you agree on with the client before you took the job?

we agreed on $5000 split between me and my partner. however, it became very complicated: the deadline shifted far earlier of what was originally planned. the client was not able to schedule our shoots (the shoots were with his various clients. it was understood from the beginning that this would be his responsible) until only 1 week before deadline, i ended up shooting about 1/2 the material our client originally wanted us to shoot (he was 100% ok with this amendment to make the deadline).

ok, let me just explain the project: our client has a website that apartment complexes in his local community pay to advertise on. he hired us to make a dvd featuring 'virtual tours' through many of the same apts that advertise on his website. we had to cut the amount of apts down to meet the deadline. we INITIALLY settled on $5000 at completion of the project. as you can read from what i explained above, a lot has changed since then. still, the project was a miraculous success (in my opinion). i killed myself finishing the thing.

i must add: the client and my partner went on vacation last weekend while i drove 2 hours out of town to finish the shooting. cool, huh?

 

[Owen]

I don't see howyou'll easily get more than the agreed upon sum, especially since it looks like a flat rate job and not an hourly deal. If there were issues with your partner then it seems like the argument is on how to split the cash, not how much to bill the client.

Regardless, next time remember to build contingencies into the contract (rush charges, etc)... I obviously know very little about your situation, but it seems like the compromise was made when the client wanted the job finished faster so they agreed to cut down on the content.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Hey, I just noticed you're in Austin. Me too... I was going to say you should drop me a line if you ever need any help, but from the sounds of this last job, maybe not.


To be honest, it's a tough call.
You wound up doing a lot of work in a shorter amount of time than you agreed to originally, but you also only did 1/2 of the shooting that orginally agreed to.

Did you agree on 5K as a flat fee, or do you have an hourly and/or daily rate that you usually charge? Is the client aware that you would like to charge him more than you orginally agreed to?

It's hard to know what you should charge him without knowing exactly where you are professionally and what you usually charge as a rate.

Another consideration is how much more business do you think you'll be getting from this client? And, is your partner still expecting to get 50% of the payment considering that he went on vacation and left you to finish things on your own?

PS.
I was obviously joking. Drop me a line if you ever need some help in town.

 

[csselement]

I don't see howyou'll easily get more than the agreed upon sum

i may not have been clear, but the thing is that our client wants to pay us a lot less now. i don't want anything more than our initial agreement. i could even take less. i was just looking for a 2nd opinion on the matter, considering it went through so many changes.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

i may not have been clear, but the thing is that our client wants to pay us a lot less now. i don't want anything more than our initial agreement. i could even take less. i was just looking for a 2nd opinion on the matter, considering it went through so many changes.

OH, so that's what's going on?
I think Owen and I both assumed you were wanted to get more than your original agreement.

Well, what was what you originally agreed to in terms of work?
How many apartments? How long was the video going to be?

And what did you wind up with compared to that?
Was your pricing ever discussed as being "per apartment" or was it just a flat fee?

When all these changes occurred throughout the production, was pricing ever discussed?

What is your client saying to you about how much he wants to pay you and why?
From what you've said, I would say that you deserve the full amount. But it's hard to know for sure without knowing the answers to these questions.

 

[thisiswells]

I don't think they can change the terms and get away with it. But, they will try. Remember your finished product is your only leverage in this situation. Get paid first.

 

[csselement]

Hey, I just noticed you're in Austin.

what up!

Did you agree on 5K as a flat fee, or do you have an hourly and/or daily rate that you usually charge?

we had a rough hourly cost sketched out...but that was really only the basis for creating the flat rate of $5000

Is the client aware that you would like to charge him more than you orginally agreed to?

i don't want any more than $5000! in fact, i'll take a lot less! considering we did 1/2 the work we originally thought we'd do. the crunched time was a huge stress factor and i think there should be some compensation on that end. it's just that i think our client is about to tell me that he can only give me $1500 or something like that. that is what i'm worried about. i'm not worried at ALL about getting over $5000. getting the initial sum is extremely unexpected (not gonna happen).

Another consideration is how much more business do you think you'll be getting from this client? And, is your partner still expecting to get 50% of the payment considering that he went on vacation and left you to finish things on your own?

my partner is pretty much giving me everything except $100 to cover expenses. even with that, i think the client only wants to fork over $1500 or around there.

Drop me a line if you ever need some help in town.

awesome.

 

[csselement]

Remember your finished product is your only leverage in this situation. Get paid first.

obvious yet very simple, good advice. let me explain this one.

i finished the project 15 minutes before fedex picked up the last shipments. it had to shipped or else it would not make it to duplication in time to be shipped back for the 'housing fair' that our client wanted this for (therefore, completely voiding the entire project as far as the client was concerned).

i wanted to sign a contract before i let go of all my hard work...but there just wasn't time. i don't think our client will screw us over or anything like that...at least not completely. i'm sure he's gonna be in the red with this venture, but i don't it should mean i should take the punishment (financially). i did all the work i possibly could with the allowed time. i even got physically sick from staying up for 3 days and staring at the computer for 23 hours/day...did i mention i didn't take time to eat? yeah, i'm not kidding. good thing i didn't, because i finished with only 15 minutes to spare. you can't imagine how bad it was to watch a render go at a snail's pace with timing like that!

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Seeing as you've handed off the final product and you have no contract, you don't have much room to negotiate anything here unfortunately.

I'm actually in a similar situation with a client right now (he didn't handle his reponsibilities for the shoot, adn hence he's not happy with the final product). In the end it looks like I'm going to have to cut my loses on that job and move on. I haven't been paid and he hasn't gotten his finished video.

Have you talked to your client at all?
You say that you think he's going to try to pay you $1500, but it sounds like you haven't talked to him about it.

Also, did you talk about the pricing at all while all these changes were happening during production?

 

[Owen]

i may not have been clear, but the thing is that our client wants to pay us a lot less now. i don't want anything more than our initial agreement. i could even take less. i was just looking for a 2nd opinion on the matter, considering it went through so many changes.

Oh! Sorry -- I misunderstood and thought you were asking for ways to up the final cost. This is an entirely different situation, and one reason that I'm hesitant to give people "breakdowns" on the budget.

In my experience if I quote someone a $10k flat rate for a job then that's the end of it -- but often they'll ask for a breakdown with the underlying goal being that they want to find a place to cut corners here and there and bring the cost down (for example if I say $500 of that is for the use of my light kit, and then they'll say "okay you know what, don't use lights... the location is bright enough... now we only pay you $9500). Usually I'm just being nice and trying to show a client where all the money goes... it sounds like you're in a similar boat, as in the client figures that it isn't worth anything that you worked your butt off to make deadline. In their eyes the hours spent on the project were fewer so they owe you less. A very misguided notion.

I'm usually hesitant to quote hourly rates. If I'm in a good mood and working fast one day then I shouldn't have to take a pay cut. Alternatively, if I'm feeling crappy and screwing up one day the client shouldn't pay more because it took my 8 hours to do a 4 hour edit job.

I'm with you on this -- sounds like they owe you for the job and they need to pay up. Just because a feature film doesn't turn a profit that doesn't mean the DP loses his paycheck.

 

[bluestar]

I strongly suggest the piece of paper is the most important part of doing work for anyone[/]. 1500? for half work? Cutting work in half would obviously bring it to $2,500. But then I'm still confused, did he change the deadline to be earler? Then that entitles you to the full 5k, as agreed upon, nothing less unless of course, he agreed the work would be cut in half. But if i'm guessing right it's sort of sounding like you landed this at the last minute sort of thing. I'll give you credit doing creative work for people gets hesitent, especially if you're a perfectionist. But no matter how hard, or how long you worked, it doesn't matter because you didn't charge an hourly rate. I feel you man, just i think this is just a lesson learned(business wise)

 

[csselement]

thanks a lot for the responses. i initially posted only to get a round-about fair price for the type of job i did, but i got a lot more valuable information (and i greatly appreaciate it).

if ever i am at fault, i will take full responsibility. however, i did not wait until the last minute to do this project (i wouldn't voluntarily put myself through the editing hell that i just experienced!). that was on the side of my client getting these apartment managers to schedule dates to shoot on.

as much as i would like to chalk it up to "a learning experience", i've really had enough of those. of course, they're always in some other little way of screwing me over. i might be fully educated by the time i reach 80.

if my partner is really going to forfeit his half, then i think $2500 is reasonable. 1/2 the total work (although is editing 1/2 as much material really 1/2 the editing work? not really), but still the full share of what was agreed upon for my part. it will only cost the client 1/2 the original price, but i will still receive my full share.

hopefully that works. thanks again for all the insightful replies.

 

[galt]

if ever i am at fault, i will take full responsibility. however, i did not wait until the last minute to do this project (i wouldn't voluntarily put myself through the editing hell that i just experienced!). that was on the side of my client getting these apartment managers to schedule dates to shoot on.

as much as i would like to chalk it up to "a learning experience", i've really had enough of those. of course, they're always in some other little way of screwing me over. i might be fully educated by the time i reach 80.

Well the whole mess is your fault, so take responsibility for it. And it would not be such a mess if you had had enough "learning experiences" so this may just be another one.

You worked without a clear contract. You let the project get out of control without addressing the consequences of delaying shoots or cutting the number of shoots. You quoted an hourly rate "sort of" but thought you were agreeing to a flat rate for the job. You allowed the job to change substantially without a written change order that addressed pricing changes. You handed over work without getting paid or even negotiating the price, which you agree has changed (to what??) . You have a "partner" that does not seem to add any value.

The big issue seems to be communication. Hell, you couldn't even clearly communicate your questions and concerns here in this thread without everyone getting confused.

In the future, spend a lot more time on THESE issues. For this job. send them an invoice for whatever you think you should be paid ($5000, $2500 ??, it sounds like you do not even know) , and hope you get it. Do not discuss it first, just send the invoice.

Good Luck.

 

[craigbowman]

Actually its a good thing you delivered the goods. Not delivering on your end of the contract would turn tables on you if they didn't pay up and you went to court. The court would rule you broke the contract by not delivering and the judge would award in their favor. If you had received a deposit, they would be awarded that as well.

Huh?

By delivering what was contracted for, the onus switches to them and you have a case.

I've seen several instances of folks not delivering the goods until they get the final payment and then going to court and winding up the victim for a second time as they are told to pay back all monies received because they never delivered the product.