Twilight Saga: New moon

I have never seen so many teenage girls and cougars in a movie theater lobby in my life, there were 3 per square foot. I wasn't surprised by the large amount of older single moms, I did witness a cougar attack in line for drinks, the 18 year old kid did make it out of there ok but it was close.
 
What about middle-aged men who play video games? The average video-gamer is not a chiid anymore, it is an adult man.

Adult men who pine to see GI Joe, A-Team, or Transformers, etc, do not have a leg to stand on in being judgemental of adult women who pine for the Twilight films. Pot calling the kettle black.

Girls grew up reading poorly written young adult romance series' just as much as boys grew up playing superhero or soldier.
 
Yes, Jim; anyone who's middle-aged that's way too into something meant for kids is just as bad. Never said otherwise.
 
Batutta said:
I think the difference is that the tendencies in romance fiction and films are antithetical to good drama. They rely on passive protagonists and deux ex machinas to propel their plots. The stories happen to them, not because of them. Superhero films are fantasies of power. They tell immature boys and men what they want to hear, that they can defeat any foe they meet and screw any woman. But they are usually centered around protagonists who pursue their goals proactively and propel the story forward due to their actions. That's why they tend to make for better movies.
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You may be right, since I am not really versed in stories specifically classified as "romance. Then again, there are plenty of action/sci-fi/fantasy/superhero stories that sacrifice plot, theme, and proper character development for spectacle, so I would bet that there are some genuinely good romance narratives out there amidst all the sappy ones with Fabio on the cover. I couldn't point anyone in the right direction, save for a well known classic like Romeo & Juliet, because they just aren't my type of thing.

Jon Starr said:
Yes, but they're simply enjoying it. Young teenagers and pre-teens are enjoying it, but also may (and probably are) influenced by it. Because as much as we, media producers, want to believe we're not influencing minds, we are.
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Yes, but at the same time, when I watched Terminator as a young lad, I didn't get the urge to obtain some guns and go into a police station and shoot the place up.

Of course, some people are impressionable, and a very small percentage of the population will go off the deep end, but that is the case with any form of media no matter how popular.

So this is telling girls what? They can revolve their lives around one guy? This is why people have unrealistic notions about what romance and relationships are. This is why people will become overly depressed to the brink of suicide after a break-up, just like Bella in 90% of the movie. She was pretty much willing to die than to be alone, and in the end she didn't find herself or anything. The only thing that happened was the guy came back. And she rejected the other guy that stuck around. And on top of that, at the end she wants to leave her life (and possibly ruin her relationship with her father) just to be with him, and I'm guessing she does... I think my gf says she does...
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Sounds like a lot of romantic comedies and maybe even some dramas that feature a love story. Hollywood and the literary world are really good at bending the truth for dramatic effect. Of course, that is also a way to make things more entertaining as well. Sometimes exaggeration is what makes a film or a book more enjoyable. Kinda like a chocolate shake versus a ham sandwich.

Actually, this description of the Twilight chick reminds me of Starbuck from the new BSG, except the exact reverse where she can't be faithful and she seems to burn as many bridges as she can. Not saying the artistic presentation of the characters and their overall arcs are equal in terms of acting and writing prowess, but the basic template is kinda similar. Basically someone who is not a good role model because they don't know how to maintain proper relationships (professional, personal, romantic), but it is often interesting and compelling to watch these kinds of characters even if most of the audience knows that you can't really get through life acting that way.

ChipG said:
I have never seen so many teenage girls and cougars in a movie theater lobby in my life, there were 3 per square foot. I wasn't surprised by the large amount of older single moms, I did witness a cougar attack in line for drinks, the 18 year old kid did make it out of there ok but it was close.
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Maybe it is just me, but I think all the raised eyebrows over the whole Twilight madness is the cougars and middle-aged married women getting all excited over it. I may be wrong, but weren't the books' target audience teenage girls and maybe younger women (18-24)? I think if that demographic was the only one getting all worked up over the books and films, then there wouldn't be as much scrutiny on the whole thing.

Of course, the young girls tell their moms about it, then when the movies come out, mom goes with, especially if their daughter is very young. Maybe these mothers find they actually like it once they see it?

I don't know.

Thing is, we could probably analyze the new Star Trek movie and find a whole bunch of elements in that film that correspond to the "unrealistic male fantasy". I don't remember anyone getting all worked up because middle aged men were all excited about Star Trek.

Jim Klatt said:
Girls grew up reading poorly written young adult romance series' just as much as boys grew up playing superhero or soldier.
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Reminds me of the time many years ago when I splattered green Pert Plus shampoo all over some trees in a nearby forrest and fooled a really impressionable kid in my neighborhood into believing that the PREDATOR actually existed and had been recently lurking in the area.
 
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I love it! Never said any part of it was bad or good. It's a market that very few people here would even look at btw. No risk in it, none!
 
Maybe I'm just not used to it is all.

Or maybe my concern is that lots of girls, especially younger girls ALREADY have this unrealistic view of what a relationship should be, and this just feeds the fire.

But maybe it's just me.
 
I think most people in the world have unrealistic expectations of what relationships will end up being.

@HVXer...you, out of the gene pool.

Also, I don't think there is anything bad about middle age men enjoying transformers or middle aged women enjoying twilight. It's FUN. Who cares?

I understand the guy sentiment here that doesn't like the girls getting their own fantasy world, where men are objectified and quite literally impossible for any real man to ever be like. So they dislike the movie on all sorts of other grounds. And while I get that, it's ridiculous. Our girlfriends' probably feel about half of our fantasies. Oh well.

But any talk of it being outright 'bad' or 'harmful'...I just don't see it. It's like the people who think reading Harry Potter will lead you to devil worship. There have always been some male nut-jobs out there who let violent books, games, and movies influence them in ways that contribute to their doing of violent deeds. I'm sure there will be some nut-job women who fall into obsessive, mopey, self-destructive swoons over pasty emo guys out there too. Heck, that already sounds like a certain segment of high school. Twilight can't be blamed for that!!! It is the story of Romeo and Juliet, without of the obvious beauty in the telling and use of language that Shakespeare commands.
 
@Keller42...i don't want kids for one because i understand that our environment has reached it's carrying capacity (do you know what that means?) and two because we're supporting an industry that would rather perpetuate shakespeare storylines for money than promote real creativity. so to stereotype this bashing of twilight as a guy sentiment thing is a horrible mistake.
 
hvxer said:
@Keller42...i don't want kids for one because i understand that our environment has reached it's carrying capacity (do you know what that means?) and two because we're supporting an industry that would rather perpetuate shakespeare storylines for money than promote real creativity. so to stereotype this bashing of twilight as a guy sentiment thing is a horrible mistake.
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Sorry to the mods and HVX if I bordered on 'each other bashing'. And HVX...this last post seems to be more in line with a normal discussion, than a lower case 'it's retarded' post, which I responded poorly too.

I agree that overpopulation is at the heart of our environmental problems, but I'm not sure how that directly ties to this situation. (Unless vampires are the solution :laugh:) The film business is a strange mix of carnival hucksters and artists, trying to work together. The hucksters are about putting whatever spectacle out there that is going to get butts in seats. I've read plenty of the bitterness about how films like Transformers, 2012, Twilight, make megabucks, while more 'creative' or 'artistic' films suffer financially. For better or worse, I don't think we can blame the material for this. Whatever sells will be sold. If you are suggesting that the masses are more apt to buy what you consider drivel because there are so many of them...I'm not sure. One might suggest that more people are more educated now than ever before in history, for whatever that is worth. I'm sure the fireside stories and dances in the middle of a medieval peasant village were no more original and creative than Twilight. Welcome to humanity.

As to the rest, if I had a daughter, I'd rather she read Twilight than watch some of the television shows on MTV and E that are out there these days. A mostly loving celibate fantasy vs the strange brainless reality we sometimes put on television.
 
Nektonic said:
Thing is, we could probably analyze the new Star Trek movie and find a whole bunch of elements in that film that correspond to the "unrealistic male fantasy". I don't remember anyone getting all worked up because middle aged men were all excited about Star Trek.
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Trek has been around for 40 years though, and at its foundation sends a message of hope and progressing humanity as a whole.
 
Star Trek isn't meant for kids.

And besides, how did this get to be men vs. women? I only brought up women initially because the audience for Twilight, the subject of this thread, is overwhelmingly female -- and my comments were about age, not gender. Reading a male vs. female thing into it is exactly that -- reading into it.
 
Kellar42 said:
But any talk of it being outright 'bad' or 'harmful'...I just don't see it. It's like the people who think reading Harry Potter will lead you to devil worship. There have always been some male nut-jobs out there who let violent books, games, and movies influence them in ways that contribute to their doing of violent deeds. I'm sure there will be some nut-job women who fall into obsessive, mopey, self-destructive swoons over pasty emo guys out there too. Heck, that already sounds like a certain segment of high school. Twilight can't be blamed for that!!! It is the story of Romeo and Juliet, without of the obvious beauty in the telling and use of language that Shakespeare commands.
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If it's a debate as to whether or not movies are impressionistic on youth, then comparing twilight feeding an unrealistic view of relationships to Harry Potter influencing devil worshipping, well that's like comparing apples to shoes...

The thing is that media has different ways of influencing people, some are influenced more than others, and it's never really a direct a+b=c relationship. So that's to say people won't watch a film about a terminator killing people and something will switch on telling them to kill people. BUT, if they're in an environment, and they've lived in an environment that's provoked some sort of violent tendencies, aggression, unrealistic motives, ideas, beliefs, etc... then films like terminator, as well as many others may just be feeding the fire in an indirect way. It's never a+b=c, but it's a combination of environmental influences.

Fact is, media is culture, because media influences culture. It could be debated that culture influences media, but I think it's a push and pull relationship. So for some... or rather many, media IS our environment. How much it influences us depends on how the other factors of our environment influence us as well. If we live in a good home, well brought up, taught good values, then watching violent films will probably do nothing but entertain. But if the opposite, it may provoke violent acts.

It's been debated time and time again as to the influence of media on youth, and I'm not going to claim I'm an expert. Perhaps I should just stop tooting my horn because all media does this.

However, IMO, I feel like having an unrealistic notion of what a relationship is happens to be more of a social norm than killing people. This is why I think young girls can easily be influenced by Twilight and it's books. As to whether or not you think it's a bad thing or an okay thing, it's up to you to decide.

But hey, I never said youth watching violence is okay. I just think parental guidance is needed when watching any kind of influential media.
 
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kids can be a lot smarter than they are. just look at that kid from the latest daily show episode who didn't want to stand for the pledge of allegiance, unless there actually is freedom and justice for all. some one educated that kid early on what it means to be american. star trek at least can teach a kid something about science
 
David Jimerson said:
Star Trek isn't meant for kids.

And besides, how did this get to be men vs. women? I only brought up women initially because the audience for Twilight, the subject of this thread, is overwhelmingly female -- and my comments were about age, not gender. Reading a male vs. female thing into it is exactly that -- reading into it.
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Yeah how did this become about male vs female?

To add onto my last post, I find this interesting. Not an article, but interesting nonetheless:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081126231349AATRbIU

I've heard stories about that from my GF as well. But doesn't make it credible of course.
 
@Jon Starr: Fair enough, although some people were very serious about Harry Potter books being a danger to children. I see your point that Twilight might provide more 'real world' influences because in some ways it's less fantastic than the violent movies we see, but then again, it has Vampires and Werewolves in it, haha! I don't completely agree with you, but I respect what you are saying.

@David: I'm not trying to say this is male VS female overall, but that rather men and women have different fantasies, and on a mostly male forum about filmmaking, we are more likely to forgive 'bad' films that cater to our fantasies than theirs. I do strongly disagree that there is anything 'wrong' with the middle aged men or women that get really into this stuff, although I don't see myself becoming one of them...

Edit: Didn't see the yahoo thing, before posting this. Seriously? Doesn't that fall under the 'nutjob' section of people who are going to get influenced by this sort of thing? Maybe that's a strong term, but if a (probably teenage) girl breaks up with her boyfriend because he can't live up to fiction...what...the fiction shouldn't be published? I mean who does this?
 
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I'm more offended that Twilight is popular because I don't think it's very good, regardless of the message. If the movies were better it wouldn't bother me that it's pushes an unhealthy female fantasy. The movies, and from what I understand the books, are just downright bad.
 
I just talked to my young female friend, she said this is the first time hearing about the franchise, I'm like shut up, I haven't watched a lick of television and even I'm fully aware of the whole thing, just trying to be cool and unaware.
 
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