Tungsten Equivalent output in Watts for these lights?

U

USLatin

Panamaniac
I am trying to get an idea of the equivalent output in Watts to a normal tungsten light for all of these and I am having trouble finding some of them. I know they are different kinds of sources I am just asking about the bulb's output.


Desisti 2.5K Fresnel - FF ballast
?

Arri 1.2K Fresnel - FF Ballast
?

Arri 575 Fresnel - FF ballast
?

Joker 200 HMI - Chimera
1000W?

Kino Flo Image 80
8 x 60W tubes so about 1680W to 1920W?

Kino Flo Image 20
4 x 40W tubes so about 560W to 640W?
 
The efficiency of HMI over tungsten is like 400% with approximately 85-108 lumens per watt of electricity.

Look for ratings in foot candles or lumens for the fixtures in question, not wattage.

.
 
Also, a par is more efficient than a fresnel. I was on a shoot once, and the 400 joker bug we had, put out a 1/4 stop MORE light than the 1200 ARRI HMI fresnel we had to use. Perhaps the 1200's bulb had aged, but still amazing to look at them side -by-side, and left us all scratching our heads.
 
Chris Santucci said:
The efficiency of HMI over tungsten is like 400% with approximately 85-108 lumens per watt of electricity.

Look for ratings in foot candles or lumens for the fixtures in question, not wattage.

.
Click to expand...

Yea, I know, I know... I just haven't gotten around to learning them... I admit it, I have been procrastinating there. :)

And thus this thread exists.

But the 400% is what I needed.

I am sorry to keep asking the same stuff, it is just so hard to remember everything.


Just to post them up here they are, just have to take into account the loss from the fresnel lenses, and the short throw of the kinos and of the Joker if using the soft box if used on the Joker which is all very 2nd nature now.

Desisti 2.5K Fresnel - FF ballast
10,000 W

Arri 1.2K Fresnel - FF Ballast
4,800 W

Arri 575 Fresnel - FF ballast
2,300 W

Joker 200 HMI - Chimera
1000 W

Kino Flo Image 80
8 x 60W tubes so about 1680W to 1920W

Kino Flo Image 20
4 x 40W tubes so about 560W to 640W



Some weird questions:
1. Do Fresnel HMI's have lenses with more light loss than tungsten fresnels or the same?
2. Does the Joker 200 HMI behave like a tungsten 800W par?


EDIT:
filmat11 said:
Also, a par is more efficient than a fresnel. I was on a shoot once, and the 400 joker bug we had, put out a 1/4 stop MORE light than the 1200 ARRI HMI fresnel we had to use. Perhaps the 1200's bulb had aged, but still amazing to look at them side -by-side, and left us all scratching our heads.
Click to expand...

That's just crazy! Are Joker 400's called 400's for the wattage? A 400W par giving out more than a 1200W fresnel?!?! I guess like you point out the bulb in the fresnel, must have been about to pass to light heaven...? Or the lens had hone off-roading in the mud?
 
Arri and Kino's websites describe the lights spec's and output.
I've never seen a tungsten 800 watt par, but a 200 watt HMI would put out aprox 800-1000 watts(your description)-comparable amount of light.
Place a 1k, fresnel Arri light and a 200 watt Joker Hmi next to each other and the light should be very similar.
The interior design of a fresnel and and Par do differ and does effect output. The dish(reflector and bulb placement-depending on manufacturer) the movement of the bulb/reflector distance all play a roll , and the size of the reflector.
Fresnel lenses, almost all made with Borosillica glass, are all so close in comparison.
The Pars usually offer super wide,wide, med and spot type lenses. These lenses are not usually opaque like fresnels, but clear.
If you want to see a light that I covet, and will hope to own by years end, check out the the ALPHA 4k. You can see them at k5600.com or on their own website www.p56lightng.com. Their 4k can be lamped at 2.5 and has a very new approach to lamp placement and reflector usage.
 
Last edited:
Not to mention the color difference. You would have to put a CTB on the tungsten to get it daylight, or a CTO on an HMI to get it to match your other Tungsten lights or practicals. That can cut down at least a half a stop or more.
 
QUOTE:

That's just crazy! Are Joker 400's called 400's for the wattage? A 400W par giving out more than a 1200W fresnel?!?! I guess like you point out the bulb in the fresnel, must have been about to pass to light heaven...? Or the lens had hone off-roading in the mud?[/QUOTE]
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some grip houses place a sticker on the lamp or ballast noting when a lamp was replaced. I did not see any information as to how old or if a new lamp was in.
To clarify, the joker bug 400 had no lens in it and the 1200 fresnel was stock , with no barndoors or any other attachments.
I was setting up a shot that required shooting the lights thru an 8x8 silk, I hadn't added a lens to the Joker yet , but noticed immediately that the output on the silk was different. A light meter proved it. Actually closer to 1/2 stop.
And yes, the Joker bug 400 pulls 400 watts, as well as the 800 joker pulls 800 watts.
It's nice that you can get so much output from so small a light (400 joker bug) and you can safely plug in a 400 and 800 in the same house hold circuit.
 
Oh, yea, those jokers look great, but HOLY MOLY! I've never seen (or looked close enough to notice) that thin casing... 128 to 6 degrees?!?! Whoa! Very nice light! And very powerful!

I read a little about those Jokers though and those seemed cool too...

For HMIs we only just have those lights I posted (unless I can convince him to throw in one of his 1.2 Par HMIs and hopefully one of his 400 Jokers too). But we'll also have two Kinos from Flo Lights:

http://www.prompterpeople.com/fl-220.php

http://www.prompterpeople.com/fl-110.php

And the rest are Tungsten:

[FONT=Monaco, Courier New](1) Arri 2k Fresnel
(2) Altman 1k Fresnel
(1) Mole 1k Fresnel
(4) Arri 650w Fresnel
(2) Desisti 300w Fresnel
(2) LTM 200w Pepper Fresnel
(2) Arri 150w Fresnel


So to re-cap and put down all of the Electric in one post:
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]HMI Lights[/FONT][FONT=Monaco, Courier New]
(1) Desisti 2.5K Fresnel
(2) Arri 1.2K Fresnel
(1) Arri 575 Fresnel
(1) Joker 200 HMI - Chimera
[/FONT]Fluorescent Lights
[FONT=Monaco, Courier New](1) Kino Flo Image 80
(1) Kino Flo Image 20
(1) FL-220 (mine)
(1) FL-110 (mine)


We will be shooting in the bitter cold of Northern Minnesota in the thick of winter! And about 60% of the movie is exteriors... I want to shoot at night too... the camera will be an HPX-170 + SG Blade + Zeiss Super Speed Primes... but I don't want to be wide open on the taking lens... I wonder how much I'll be able to get out there at night. At least the snow will give us quite a bit of additional light bouncing back up. However I am not sure how we'll do it without a crane or baloons... I am hoping to be able to get a work crane for a week and run all of our HMIs together through some 4x4 diffusion... then use the tungsten lights down below... CTB'ed or just 1/4 CTB'ed if used as spill from the close by houses...?

We'll have two 2000W honda quiet gennys all though the shoot and we'll have a 6000W honda quiet genny for the night stuff.... hopefully we can get enough from the cabins when we are close enough. We will basically have to stay close by for the night stuff and cheat whatever we need to do for scenes far from the cabins. Oh, and I will need some wide shots, running and the sort of action stuff that will require a big moon light key..

Any thoughts? Also, what would you ask for if he were to agree to throw in a couple more lights into the smaller truck? These are the HMIs and Fluorecents he has on his big truck, but I guess I would only ask for HMIs for longer throw:

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]HMI Lights[/FONT][FONT=Monaco, Courier New](1) Desisti 2.5K Fresnel
FF ballast
Scrims
Cable
(1) CMC 1.2K Par
FF Ballast
Lens Set
Cable
1) Arri 1200 PAR
FF Ballast
Lens Set
Cable
(4) Arri 1.2K Fresnel
FF Ballast
Scrims
Cable
(1) Arri 575 Fresnel
FF ballast
Scrims
Cable
(1) Ianiro 575 Fresnel
Mag ballast
Scrims
Cable
(1) Joker 400 HMI
Chimera
DC Inverter
(1) Joker 200 HMI
Chimera
DC Inverter

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Fluorescent Lights
[/FONT][FONT=Monaco, Courier New](2) Kino Flo Image 80
(3) Kino Flo Image 20
(1) Desisti De-Lux[/FONT][FONT=Monaco, Courier New]

I am guessing the best ones to ask for would be the Arri 1.2 Par HMI and the Joker 400... or whichever I can get out of the two.
[/FONT]
 
I'd get Joker 800's and add a couple Tungsten Arri or Mole kits. Shooting interiors with practicals might benefit from some smaller lights as well, even if you do need to lamp down,scrim or gel blue. My favorite lights are either Dedo's or the Arri 150 tungstens for small "Specials" or hair light.
With your package above, I would add several open frames for adding gel or diffusion, a 6x6 frame kit,8x8 frame kit and perhaps a 12x12 set. Make sure you get the standard fabrics, solid,silk,single,double, and either GRIFF or ultra bounce for a large reflector. You'll need triple riser combo or Mombo stands for these frames. And don't forget the shinny boards. Good luck.
 
We have all kinds of grip gear, but he is only giving me an 6x6 and a 4x4
butterflies which is only good for sit down interview type stuff.

Wait...

I just called him ad he said he would tweak it with me... he'll definitely bring at least a 12x12 maybe a 20x20 would be best together with an 8x8... both with Solid Silk Single and Doubles.

He said we could switch one of the Fresnel 1.2k for a Par and I asked for him to throw something in and he said that the 400 Joker would be too small so it sounds like he is cool with it... and then he said that the only thing he wants is for us to keep the weight down cause he messed up his suspension not too long ago from overloading the truck, it is supposed to be a 2-Ton... but get this, he said he'd probably even bring his 5-Ton
for the week with night time exterior! I didn't offer him anything, so I have to guess that he would rather just do that to keep things simple and do it right. After all he will be my DP or Gaffer, and when I mentioned the frames he pretty much right away agreed that the 6x6 and 4x4 didn't make any sense.
 
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