trying to create a "film noir" look
- Thread starter matthewd5
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Scott_Spears
Well-known member
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
Film Noir was known for broad stroke lighting and Black & White photography. Big single sources coming in through windows creating shadows. Remember to put some kind of rim or back light to seperate your subjects from the backgrounds. In color, different color levels can make that seperation, but in B&W you'll need edges on your actors to keep them from blending into the background.
Check out the cinematography of John Alton from the late 40s and into the 50's. More recently, see "The Man Who Wasn't There". Also check out the trailer for "Sin City".
Scott
Film Noir was known for broad stroke lighting and Black & White photography. Big single sources coming in through windows creating shadows. Remember to put some kind of rim or back light to seperate your subjects from the backgrounds. In color, different color levels can make that seperation, but in B&W you'll need edges on your actors to keep them from blending into the background.
Check out the cinematography of John Alton from the late 40s and into the 50's. More recently, see "The Man Who Wasn't There". Also check out the trailer for "Sin City".
Scott
10s
Veteran
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
Besides great art direction (sets, alleys, trashed old hotels, rooms) the only thing I can think of adding is to desaturate your shots in post to about 5-10% chroma, just a slight hint of color, even better go black & white! Use more color for the scenes that suggest life, happiness, etc... and minimal color for scenes of hard gritty life. Go through the movies you like & study the composition, lighting, music, drama, the absence of excessive dialogue.... the setup.... basically everything...
As previously stated John Alton is excellent reference, Seven DP by Darius Khondji ASC AFC, has a nice modern day gritty look, always raining, inside, light in the background, often at a distance, foreground is dark or darker, etc... start with a dark set & build up the light, see how sparse your lighting can be.
good luck ...love that noir style!
Besides great art direction (sets, alleys, trashed old hotels, rooms) the only thing I can think of adding is to desaturate your shots in post to about 5-10% chroma, just a slight hint of color, even better go black & white! Use more color for the scenes that suggest life, happiness, etc... and minimal color for scenes of hard gritty life. Go through the movies you like & study the composition, lighting, music, drama, the absence of excessive dialogue.... the setup.... basically everything...
As previously stated John Alton is excellent reference, Seven DP by Darius Khondji ASC AFC, has a nice modern day gritty look, always raining, inside, light in the background, often at a distance, foreground is dark or darker, etc... start with a dark set & build up the light, see how sparse your lighting can be.
good luck ...love that noir style!
MattC
Veteran
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
Sure watch my short. http://homepage.mac.com/matthewjcherry/.Movies/After the Gig.mp4 ;D A thread on this is here: http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=XL2;action=display;num=1099773059;start=
Ok well, hey its a plug. Now seriously, Noir is great! a few things that are hallmarks of Noir are static camera angles often dramatic in nature, hard lighting, deep depth of field (they went to great lengths to get a deep DOF out of film cameras - you don't have to worry about it with video). Check out THE ASPHALT JUNGLE (the quintessential Noir by John Huston), GUN CRAZY, MURDER MY SWEET, OUT OF THE PAST or THE SET-UP.
As far as story goes (although it looks like you've been handed one, Noir is all about the anti-hero. The bad guy that we like because he's misunderstood, or just doing his best to get by and hey, he's the least bad of the bunch. There are only two types of women in Noir: the young misguided dame whose had the poor misfortune to fall for the wrong sort of Joe, or the femme fatale, who'll use you and cast you aside just as fast. Another trait of Noir is the ending. Usually the hero (anti-hero in Noir) buys the farm - tragedy at its best! Look on the net, you can find a ton of resources on it.
Also watch the movie Payback - it's in color but it is lit and shot in a very Noir fashion.
Good luck and be sure to post something!
Matt
Sure watch my short. http://homepage.mac.com/matthewjcherry/.Movies/After the Gig.mp4 ;D A thread on this is here: http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=XL2;action=display;num=1099773059;start=
Ok well, hey its a plug. Now seriously, Noir is great! a few things that are hallmarks of Noir are static camera angles often dramatic in nature, hard lighting, deep depth of field (they went to great lengths to get a deep DOF out of film cameras - you don't have to worry about it with video). Check out THE ASPHALT JUNGLE (the quintessential Noir by John Huston), GUN CRAZY, MURDER MY SWEET, OUT OF THE PAST or THE SET-UP.
As far as story goes (although it looks like you've been handed one, Noir is all about the anti-hero. The bad guy that we like because he's misunderstood, or just doing his best to get by and hey, he's the least bad of the bunch. There are only two types of women in Noir: the young misguided dame whose had the poor misfortune to fall for the wrong sort of Joe, or the femme fatale, who'll use you and cast you aside just as fast. Another trait of Noir is the ending. Usually the hero (anti-hero in Noir) buys the farm - tragedy at its best! Look on the net, you can find a ton of resources on it.
Also watch the movie Payback - it's in color but it is lit and shot in a very Noir fashion.
Good luck and be sure to post something!
Matt
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
the script is actually pretty good, it has a femme fatale who is double crossed by another somewhat older femme fatale.
its a love triangle double, triple cross.
sort of an older professors trophy wife with her boyfriend and the professor with his secretary double cross.
with the right angles you won't know who killed who initially with another double cross at the end.
so broad lighting, i am a dunce at lighting, this would mean big hard lights like my DP lights?
for backlighting, something smaller and subtle like a pro light with or without the umbrella?
would slick dolly/crane shots ruin the look??
the writer/director was thinking to use very harsh contrasty colors.
i asked him to name one specific movie that has the look he likes/wants and he named mulholland drive which i haven't seen yet. going to rent tonight.
he actually got some very attractive actors and the lead professor guy is a stage actor with a bit of experience so this could really work out. trying to get into the film noir style asap so i can do a lot of test shots
matthew
the script is actually pretty good, it has a femme fatale who is double crossed by another somewhat older femme fatale.
its a love triangle double, triple cross.
sort of an older professors trophy wife with her boyfriend and the professor with his secretary double cross.
with the right angles you won't know who killed who initially with another double cross at the end.
so broad lighting, i am a dunce at lighting, this would mean big hard lights like my DP lights?
for backlighting, something smaller and subtle like a pro light with or without the umbrella?
would slick dolly/crane shots ruin the look??
the writer/director was thinking to use very harsh contrasty colors.
i asked him to name one specific movie that has the look he likes/wants and he named mulholland drive which i haven't seen yet. going to rent tonight.
he actually got some very attractive actors and the lead professor guy is a stage actor with a bit of experience so this could really work out. trying to get into the film noir style asap so i can do a lot of test shots
matthew
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
ok the suggestion about desaturation of chroma, would it be a good idea to try and do that in camera?
i was thinking i could come up with two looks and save one in F5 and the other in F6 and change for the scene/mood
i have always wanted to do a movie where there is a specific look for one type of scene and another specific look for the other types of scenes.
like in the day after tomorrow, the indoor scenes are incredibly warm and rich and the outdoor scenes to show the new iceage are very cold and sort of washed out.
matthew
ok the suggestion about desaturation of chroma, would it be a good idea to try and do that in camera?
i was thinking i could come up with two looks and save one in F5 and the other in F6 and change for the scene/mood
i have always wanted to do a movie where there is a specific look for one type of scene and another specific look for the other types of scenes.
like in the day after tomorrow, the indoor scenes are incredibly warm and rich and the outdoor scenes to show the new iceage are very cold and sort of washed out.
matthew
MattC
Veteran
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
Low key lighting is what you want for Noir. For another "modern" movie with a similar look, check out Blade Runner
Yes, harsh hard lighting is a staple of film noir. However, most modern movies, even those that are "noirish" aren't lit entirely that way (or at least they don't appear that way to my eye, maybe Walter can shed more light on that) they use a combinations of hard lighting and soft light. When I do this again, even if it is a color "noir" I would use cookies which I failed to do the first time.
Matt
Low key lighting is what you want for Noir. For another "modern" movie with a similar look, check out Blade Runner
Yes, harsh hard lighting is a staple of film noir. However, most modern movies, even those that are "noirish" aren't lit entirely that way (or at least they don't appear that way to my eye, maybe Walter can shed more light on that) they use a combinations of hard lighting and soft light. When I do this again, even if it is a color "noir" I would use cookies which I failed to do the first time.
Matt
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
so you would use the cookies to lower the light on the actors? or just parts of the room?
i imagine if you got it just right you could cookie out the actor so he was in his own shadowy world.
i was thinking of trying to find places to use cuke's, maybe a ventian blind one and some generic ones with diagonal lines to make the background shadowy.
i'm signed up for walters class on the 29th but i'm afraid i have to start shooting before then
i have a pretty good handle on the skills for doing this stuff but lighting is the one thing that i don't feel competent at. i kind of blank out when i'm looking at space i'm supposed to light and there are people standing around waiting for you to perform lighting magic!
matthew
so you would use the cookies to lower the light on the actors? or just parts of the room?
i imagine if you got it just right you could cookie out the actor so he was in his own shadowy world.
i was thinking of trying to find places to use cuke's, maybe a ventian blind one and some generic ones with diagonal lines to make the background shadowy.
i'm signed up for walters class on the 29th but i'm afraid i have to start shooting before then
i have a pretty good handle on the skills for doing this stuff but lighting is the one thing that i don't feel competent at. i kind of blank out when i'm looking at space i'm supposed to light and there are people standing around waiting for you to perform lighting magic!
matthew
MattC
Veteran
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
I'd use the cuks on the background to create patterns of light and dark. I used a real venetian blind hung from a mic stand but you could certainly make a cuke of it. I used a few hard lights with barndoors and was able to shape the light alot just with those. I would want to pick up some black foil before I did it again to really help shape the light. Also for this stuff I think more smaller lights are better than a few larger ones. I liked being able to carefully spot objects for effect without making it to obvious.
Unfortunately, I'm going to be in Vegas when Walter's giving his class so I won't be able to make it. But... For noir I think of lighting in layers like a painting. I use a monitor and then just start adding layers until I get the look that's in my head. I also storyboard things first on paper and for myself this is critical. If I were doing what you're were doing I would go to each location and either video tape it or take digital photographs of it or both, then I would plot out how I wanted to light it on paper before the shoot. You might not actually do it that way, but at least you have a point of reference.
Matt
I'd use the cuks on the background to create patterns of light and dark. I used a real venetian blind hung from a mic stand but you could certainly make a cuke of it. I used a few hard lights with barndoors and was able to shape the light alot just with those. I would want to pick up some black foil before I did it again to really help shape the light. Also for this stuff I think more smaller lights are better than a few larger ones. I liked being able to carefully spot objects for effect without making it to obvious.
Unfortunately, I'm going to be in Vegas when Walter's giving his class so I won't be able to make it. But... For noir I think of lighting in layers like a painting. I use a monitor and then just start adding layers until I get the look that's in my head. I also storyboard things first on paper and for myself this is critical. If I were doing what you're were doing I would go to each location and either video tape it or take digital photographs of it or both, then I would plot out how I wanted to light it on paper before the shoot. You might not actually do it that way, but at least you have a point of reference.
Matt
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
thanks for all the suggestions.
on this project i will have the luxury of going to at least a few of the locations and doing a bunch of camera tests.
too often i am helping someone out and can't get into the location until the day of the shoot and then you have people standing around chatting and getting in the way and its a nightmare at least for me, to concentrate on the lighting and to not feel rushed.
matthew
thanks for all the suggestions.
on this project i will have the luxury of going to at least a few of the locations and doing a bunch of camera tests.
too often i am helping someone out and can't get into the location until the day of the shoot and then you have people standing around chatting and getting in the way and its a nightmare at least for me, to concentrate on the lighting and to not feel rushed.
matthew
Shooter
Veteran
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
Have you got an experienced gaffer to assist you ?
Dont just rely on your own skills - use the gaffers experience because he will have worked with more DPs then you probably.... and he can make you look good. Work out how to acheive the ideas and the look with him (or her).
Have you got an experienced gaffer to assist you ?
Dont just rely on your own skills - use the gaffers experience because he will have worked with more DPs then you probably.... and he can make you look good. Work out how to acheive the ideas and the look with him (or her).
Re: trying to create a "film noir" look
never.
i virtually always am the only person.
i mean i have people who are part of the thing i'm filming and i can get someone to hold something but if i ask for any opinions they always think everything looks wonderful.
its hard to get advice from someone who is just thrilled their seeing their story/event/life put on tape.
matthew
never.
i virtually always am the only person.
i mean i have people who are part of the thing i'm filming and i can get someone to hold something but if i ask for any opinions they always think everything looks wonderful.
its hard to get advice from someone who is just thrilled their seeing their story/event/life put on tape.
matthew