Tripod, P4k, ~$500

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pmcdonald

Active member
In my quest to build up a lightweight, relatively good bang for buck kit from scratch I'm now turning my attention to tripod options.

It'll initially be supporting a Pocket 4k camera with V-lock battery and not much else. A Canon 70-300L will be about the heaviest attached lens.

I do corporate work and tend to shoot handheld as much as possible. The tripod is mainly used for interviews and events with limited panning and near zero repeat moves. Working with the Miller Air Solo I'm not a fan of the twisty single legs - found them perishable and slower to setup - so would prefer a crutch design. Besides that I'm after something relatively lightweight, and easy and quiet to setup and move.

Now, I've read the arguments that you can't buy a decent tripod for anything less than Elon Musk's SEC fine but I am trying to stick to about a USD$650 ceiling (~AU$1k). The kit total is shaping up to be well under $10k so I'm trying to purchase gear across the board that represents good usability on a limited budget. (If things go really well it can become a B cam support.)

I have a shortlist of the following below, but having only used Millers in recent years I'm flying blind as to the pros and pitfalls of this end of the market:

Sachtler Ace M: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/822102-REG/Sachtler_1001_Ace_Fluid_Head_with.html
Manfrotto N8 & 546: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...otto_mvkn8twinmus_nitrotech_n8_546b_twin.html
E-Image with GH06: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...g06a2_2_stage_aluminum_tripod_gh06_fluid.html

Bonus budget option:
Manfrotto 502 & 502: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...to_mvk502am_1_mvh502a_head_with_mvt502am.html

Any standout options? Other systems or individual components?
 
Some would say that you have prioritized your budget incorrectly. For a budget of U.S. $9,200.00, for example, you should budget a minimum of $2,300.00 for a tripod,
preferably more. None of the tripods you mentioned are professional level gear, they are all prosumer/consumer gear that will have stiction, leg flex and whiplash.

Tripods are definitely buy once, cry once and the fact that you are putting a relatively small and lightweight camera on it doesn't mean that a relatively
small and light weight camera will be so much less of a load that the tripod head will perform well. Another way you should be choosing is simply to calculate
your heaviest configuration, you might be surprised at how heavy it will be. V-mounts aren't light and it seems that BMD doesn't publish the weight but it has to be at least a couple of pounds or more?
V mount mounting plate weight? Are you going to have a cage, rods, FF, matte box? Small cameras still need a relatively larger head and
legs to create professional quality moves. It is good that you will mostly need lockoffs for interviews and will have limited panning but will you ever do
a simulataneous pan and tilt (compound move)? I would be looking at least a head like the Miller AIR or a Sachtler FSB-8 and I would seriously consider the new Sachtler Flowtech 75 legs, they are
without a doubt the best 75mm legs on the market. That puts you at about $2k with the Miller for about $2,200.00 to $2500.00 with a Sachtler head. Not cheap but this will last you your next half a dozen cameras.
The tripods you describe above are all disposable and I predict you would only keep for a matter of months before you get frustrated and sell them at a huge loss and buy a real tripod.

If you have not yet bought, I would rethink your entire budget allocation unless you literally will never use a tripod other than for interviews. That's the beauty of the lock off, any cheap tripod can do that fine, its
only when you start doing slow, smooth compound moves or fast pans that a cheap tripod falls apart and cannot deliver. Good luck.
 
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Dan always does a much better job replying to these posts, when they pop-up every few months, than I do. But here we go, again. Don't buy a cheap(crap) tripod(system). Go on eBay, if you have to. I've seen some old, used heads on there lately for a fraction of their new price, and unless they were just thouroughly abused, they'll still perform well.

I have a client that has some of the Sachtler's and the Manfroto 502's. That Manfroto is probably one of the worst heads I've ever seen in my career. Absolute pure garbage. And I can't emphasize that enough. Out of everything you listed, if someone put a gun to my head, I'd have to choose the Sachtler. But it's a Sachtler in name only. But I'd never buy any of them willingly, if I knew I had to make even a simple pan or tilt "live" with one of them.

Go check-out eBay. Seriously.
 
Run&Gun said:
Dan always does a much better job replying to these posts, when they pop-up every few months, than I do. But here we go, again. Don't buy a cheap(crap) tripod(system). Go on eBay, if you have to. I've seen some old, used heads on there lately for a fraction of their new price, and unless they were just thouroughly abused, they'll still perform well.

I have a client that has some of the Sachtler's and the Manfroto 502's. That Manfroto is probably one of the worst heads I've ever seen in my career. Absolute pure garbage. And I can't emphasize that enough. Out of everything you listed, if someone put a gun to my head, I'd have to choose the Sachtler. But it's a Sachtler in name only. But I'd never buy any of them willingly, if I knew I had to make even a simple pan or tilt "live" with one of them.

Go check-out eBay. Seriously.
Click to expand...

Good recommendation Run&Gun. I have seen some amazing deals on used good stuff too.

Unfortunately most gear in our game doesn't hold squat for resale value. I've been doing a valuation on all of my gear for insurance and even stuff that formerly held it's value really well like C-stands and tripods aren't worth much used anymore. Remember when used C-stands were like Gold? I could barely sell mine off and they were in really good shape, I only kept four and sold off a dozen but I didn't get what they were worth because there just isn't the market for them as much anymore. It's because our business is changing and everything is newer, smaller, lighter. Right now you can't give away good tungsten lighting, everyone MUST ONLY buy LEDs, which is a shame because tungsten looks better, but it sucks power and is hot as hell. Same with tripods, the Video 20s we used back in the day with F900s and Varicams just aren't needed to hold a C300 MKII or an FS7. I have to say, when I tested the Flowtech 75mm legs earlier this year, Sachtler sent me an FSB-8 head. While I still really like Sachtler, the FSB heads don't hold a candle to the older DVSB heads on the lower end or the Video 18-20 heads on the higher end. The ACE stuff, ooff, not good and I agree, Sachtler in name only.
 
Agree with all the advice you’ve gotten so far.

Definitely try the FlowTech legs because they are amazing & thinking about replacing my SpeedLocks with a set.

Mostly chimed in to share my hatred of the 502 which is primarily due to it’s locking knob being on the wrong side of the head.

Try not to go too lightweight with your sticks or you’ll have issues on rugs, grass, etc.
 
If you are going to be cheap I could recommend the Manfrotto 510, which was rebranded the 526. I think its the only real head from Manfrotto and as they renamed and changed a couple of things they can be had for $100 on a good day. Is it a Sachtler?, no but it can pan and tilt very well for the price. Rated for 8.5 or 10.5 Kg depending on the model. Many will dis it that haven't used it but I keep having DP's comment on how good it is when they hear the price.
 
Unfortunately Dan is right about re-sale value, but I've never bought anything with re-sale in mind. I buy my gear for the purpose of using it to make the product better and make my life easier. But it's also easier when you're buying "big boy" gear. Tripods(mostly referring to the heads) aren't sexy, but if you buy a good one, it will out last many cameras, especially today.

There are a few Vinten 12SD packages on eBay right now for less than $1,000. At least one with a set of CF legs. That head alone was probably $5K+ new 20 years ago. That is actually THE head I wanted when I started out, but it was a little out of my price range, so I had to settle for the 10LF w/CF legs. The legs have long shuffled off, but the head is still working and sits "permanently" attached to a hi-hat/baby legs. Hell, I'm seriously considering buying it. It was just re-built. What a steal.

Bern, I have a set of the 100 FlowTec legs on pre-order(like you, I have SpeedLocks). Hopefully they'll be here soon. They're supposed to start shipping sometime in October.
 
Thank you all for the in-depth replies. I have great respect for all your opinions and have heard the message loud and clear: the cheap options I listed are out.

The Flowtech does look pretty amazing - the leg extension mechanism is exactly what I want - but that's getting into a whole new stratosphere of pricing. Here in Australia we're looking at AU$4k for the Flowtech/FSB-8 combo. I'm happy to bump up a price bracket or two for a vastly superior product but that's like half my lean little startup budget. If I was shooting day in, day out I think I could rationalise it but given I shoot at most 1/5th of my time and time lapse and edit the rest I just don't think I can quite justify the stretch. But beautiful looking kit - it's on my wishlist.

I hadn't considered Ebay for tripods - for some reason I assumed they were like glass and held their value but apparently not so much. I see the Vinten 12SD listings. There's also a few Miller 2 stage DS-10 and 20's. I've used the DS-10 with the 2 stage legs regularly with the C200 and like it a lot. Given I loathe shooting with much more than the body and lens (the V-lock being the exception and likely a necessity for P4k event and extended interview shooting) it might do nicely. Couple of follow up used questions:

* Is the Vinten 12SD a particularly good option or just something that'll do in the right price bracket? I'm not familiar with the brand and haven't seen one in the wild on local productions.
* Are there any other used models to keep an eye out for?
* Any red flags with buying used tripods? Things to ask for? For example a lot of the Miller's I've used have threaded handle mounts which just tends to compound the problem.

Thanks again, some awesome advice for me here!
 
pmcdonald said:
Thank you all for the in-depth replies. I have great respect for all your opinions and have heard the message loud and clear: the cheap options I listed are out.

The Flowtech does look pretty amazing - the leg extension mechanism is exactly what I want - but that's getting into a whole new stratosphere of pricing. Here in Australia we're looking at AU$4k for the Flowtech/FSB-8 combo. I'm happy to bump up a price bracket or two for a vastly superior product but that's like half my lean little startup budget. If I was shooting day in, day out I think I could rationalise it but given I shoot at most 1/5th of my time and time lapse and edit the rest I just don't think I can quite justify the stretch. But beautiful looking kit - it's on my wishlist.

I hadn't considered Ebay for tripods - for some reason I assumed they were like glass and held their value but apparently not so much. I see the Vinten 12SD listings. There's also a few Miller 2 stage DS-10 and 20's. I've used the DS-10 with the 2 stage legs regularly with the C200 and like it a lot. Given I loathe shooting with much more than the body and lens (the V-lock being the exception and likely a necessity for P4k event and extended interview shooting) it might do nicely. Couple of follow up used questions:

* Is the Vinten 12SD a particularly good option or just something that'll do in the right price bracket? I'm not familiar with the brand and haven't seen one in the wild on local productions.
* Are there any other used models to keep an eye out for?
* Any red flags with buying used tripods? Things to ask for? For example a lot of the Miller's I've used have threaded handle mounts which just tends to compound the problem.

Thanks again, some awesome advice for me here!
Click to expand...

Since you are an Aussie, you are required to buy a Miller as it's an Aussie product! I have two sets of Miller legs and the Miller AIR and I like their gear although once you use the Flowtech, I don't like my Miller legs nearly as much as I used to.
I forgot that out all of the most commonly buying pro camera gear non-US countries, you guys get the most screwed by taxes, tariffs and exchange rates, $4k! Worse than our UK, French and German friends.
Ebay would not be optimal to buy a used tripod unless they have a no questions asked evaluation period. The good news is, unlike electronics, upon examination, if a used tripod works and works well, it should
continue to work well for a number of years. I'm near Hollywood so it's easy to find lots of good used stuff, both in shops and from personal sales on Craigslist and the like. For you, are you near any areas
where a lot of production is done? I would recommend examining a used tripod in person over just buying one over the Internet. You need to check for stiction, leaks in a fluid head, broken clips, bent legs, etc. in person IMHO.
 
Here is a dissenting view considering the description of how the OP will use his tripod system.

First: If you want a really steady tripod, there is no substitute for mass. Big and heavy generally will produce better results. Lightweight gear is great for travel or mobile use, but will usually be a compromise of some sort. The question to answer is just how much compromise can be tolerated. The first tripod I purchased for video was in fact, a 546. Mine has a center column on a crank. I still have that tripod and carry it as part of a kit that is always in my vehicle. Is is a very good tripod; no. But it has a few features that should resonate, it goes pretty tall, it goes low, mine has rubber feet and spikes, and it is pretty light, and it was pretty cheap. There are probably other models equally cheap that might tick most of those boxes, but for me, it is cheap, light (enough), and versatile. If something bad happened to it, I wouldn't be heartbroken. Why would someone who isn't cheap, I'm not, be satisfied with this modest offering? I don't use a tripod very much for fluid moves. And when I do, I want a tripod with mass; an entirely different tool to make that happen. But all of this gets back to the compromise: I can live with a cheap set of sticks for a lot of work because I don't ask much of them and have nice heavy gear when I do need better function. I wonder how many small operators have multiple sets of sticks? This might better define how you approach your purchase.

Regards,
Grant
 
Well, I've gone and ordered the Flowtech 75 legs with an XL head. That probably makes the head the weak link but I'm happy to give it a run - with the style of work I do and the weight of the rig (~4 - 5 lb) I honestly think it'll be fine as long as the build quality holds up. Super excited about the legs though! A few user videos were enough to give me that light bulb moment. You guys are right - the tripod will last at least a few bodies so it was a silly component to skimp on. Which leads to the hypothetical: which components can you skimp on?
 
"limited panning and near zero repeat moves."

All advice is good above, but here's something to think about which runs contrary. I went the opposite way than most and started off with expensive tripods (miller and sachtler).
They work awesome for pans but extremely heavy for travel.

I usually use a tripod locked off only and travel a lot, so for my needs the lightest is the best. I end up using the lightest that works which in my case 50% of the time
is the 3 legged thing (still too heavy for travel), or the mefoto roadtrip. Believe it or not the mefoto works perfectly when you hang a bag from the hook to stabilize, and all the other ones sit in the garage (need to sell em). :)

So guess it comes down to your needs and if you need to pan or not. If you don't pan then go to cheap would be my thought.
 
Got the Flowtech. Beautiful legs. Seriously smart bit of engineering with so many 'duh, that's so obvious why doesn't everyone do that' features.

They feel like total overkill for my little rig-to-be but like others say they'll out last several generations of bodies so I'm sure I'll grow into them.

No issues with the Ace XL head either but ... ahem ... still waiting on my actual body so haven't put it through the wringer yet.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and recommendations. When the time comes for a set of legs for camera B I'll hit up some of the cheaper recommendations above.
 
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