Tim Naylor
Veteran
Thanks fo the offer, but I've come to a conclusion. Tomorrow, I'll buy it. Tested a bunch of heads in the last few days and here's my review:
Vinten 3: Too light for HVX w/adaptor / Marshall package. Adjust for pan/tilt tension is a pain in the ass. It's modified version of Gitzo's (what a coincidence they're owned by the same co). Getting to the higher tension is a workout. And I wasn't blown away by the movement - feels like an improved manfrotto. Something very friction like. In fact, resellers catagorize it under fluid but Vinten's lit never mentions the F word but instead they tout their "lubricated friction" system. I'm beginning to think there's no true fluid displacement system in the vision series but it's just the best that friction heads can be. But it still has that friction feel which I just don't find so super smooth. It has no backlash at the end of movement which is great for long lens work. It's build is very rugged. All metal. And it's spring balance system is excellent. I just find it's resistance curves too rough (nothing like a manfrotto). I definitely put above the Sachtler DV 6's and below and maybe the 8. It has none of the cheap springiness that plagues the lower end Sachtlers. Also at 900.00 I think it's a great deal. All metal and none of the flex issues of the Focus when you load it up.
Vision 8.
Definitely can handle the weight for my needs. Balance maybe too strong for a naked HVX. Still suffers the misgivings I have for the V3.
In all, given the raves of Vinten's I was expecting more. But what can I say, I started with heavy cameras and big heads, so there's a certain level of smooth that's really hard to find in sub 10lb heads.
Sachtler 12
It's build seems excellent. The balance range keeps you from buying different heads for different cameras. Even though it's rated at 28lbs, you'd be a fool to go near that. Not enough tilt tension for anything above 15lbs. That's the endemic problem with all the lightweights is lack of decent, even tilt tension. The weight is nice and light. Adjusting tension is much easier than the Vinten.
So far not good. All of the above were in my price range but none give the big head smooth movement on a small head performance that I'm looking for.
The Panther X15. Superb build. When German engineering gets it right this how it looks in tripod form. Excellent pan but the tilt tension could be stronger. Again, I'd never load it up to it's upper end (32lbs). I'd say no more that 22-25lbs and you'll get good, smooth predictable movement.
So who's the winner. Most unlikely as I've never seen them in rental houses, etc. The winner is.....Miller Arrow 25. Total fluid feel. Finally, decent tilt tension. Motion makes Vinten 3,6 and 8 feel primitive. Definitely feel confident loading it up to a few pounds shy of its limit. Will easily handle an HPX, Arri SR and maybe a Varicam. It'll also go down to 7.7 lbs which works just right with the HVX, Zacuto plate rods and mattebox. Best of all the movement reminded me of a mini version of a Sachtler Studio 9x9 or dare I go there, an O'Conner. Priced at 2400.00 I feel it blows away any competition in that range give or take 500.
I was just about to give up on a tripod that can handle my heavy package and the stripped down one and still give that ultra smooth movement.
I know the Vinten lovers are rolling up their sleeves, but before you throws stones, just do a side by side. I tested it against a V 8. The Vinten is 450.00 more but it's movement was not in the same class. What I really love about the Miller is the steep resistance on sudden acceleration then the ease off. This is what true fluid displacement does that a friction head can never do. It's this steep curve at the head of sudden movement that makes a tripod smooth, especially in less than ideal circumstances (bumpy process trailers, subway, etc. ). It absorbs vibration and sudden shifts.
The only other head I found in close comp was the Gamma... at 800.00 more.
Miller's 3 year warranty says a bit about the build.
Will buy it tomorrow. Will give more reports from the field.
However, if I were to rate by price:
Below 700 Lord knows
700- 1000 goes to Vinten 3
1000 to 2000 goes to sachtler 8
2000-3500 goes to Miller 25, X 15 and Gamma.
3500 plus O'Conner.
At the end of the day, a decent tripod is a good chunk of change but you'll have it much longer than your camera. Reviews are good starting point but don't chance it until you tried it. If I went by the level of positive reviews, I'd have bought a Vinten and would have been disappointed. Yet some folks dig them, obviously. So you have to test them.
Vinten 3: Too light for HVX w/adaptor / Marshall package. Adjust for pan/tilt tension is a pain in the ass. It's modified version of Gitzo's (what a coincidence they're owned by the same co). Getting to the higher tension is a workout. And I wasn't blown away by the movement - feels like an improved manfrotto. Something very friction like. In fact, resellers catagorize it under fluid but Vinten's lit never mentions the F word but instead they tout their "lubricated friction" system. I'm beginning to think there's no true fluid displacement system in the vision series but it's just the best that friction heads can be. But it still has that friction feel which I just don't find so super smooth. It has no backlash at the end of movement which is great for long lens work. It's build is very rugged. All metal. And it's spring balance system is excellent. I just find it's resistance curves too rough (nothing like a manfrotto). I definitely put above the Sachtler DV 6's and below and maybe the 8. It has none of the cheap springiness that plagues the lower end Sachtlers. Also at 900.00 I think it's a great deal. All metal and none of the flex issues of the Focus when you load it up.
Vision 8.
Definitely can handle the weight for my needs. Balance maybe too strong for a naked HVX. Still suffers the misgivings I have for the V3.
In all, given the raves of Vinten's I was expecting more. But what can I say, I started with heavy cameras and big heads, so there's a certain level of smooth that's really hard to find in sub 10lb heads.
Sachtler 12
It's build seems excellent. The balance range keeps you from buying different heads for different cameras. Even though it's rated at 28lbs, you'd be a fool to go near that. Not enough tilt tension for anything above 15lbs. That's the endemic problem with all the lightweights is lack of decent, even tilt tension. The weight is nice and light. Adjusting tension is much easier than the Vinten.
So far not good. All of the above were in my price range but none give the big head smooth movement on a small head performance that I'm looking for.
The Panther X15. Superb build. When German engineering gets it right this how it looks in tripod form. Excellent pan but the tilt tension could be stronger. Again, I'd never load it up to it's upper end (32lbs). I'd say no more that 22-25lbs and you'll get good, smooth predictable movement.
So who's the winner. Most unlikely as I've never seen them in rental houses, etc. The winner is.....Miller Arrow 25. Total fluid feel. Finally, decent tilt tension. Motion makes Vinten 3,6 and 8 feel primitive. Definitely feel confident loading it up to a few pounds shy of its limit. Will easily handle an HPX, Arri SR and maybe a Varicam. It'll also go down to 7.7 lbs which works just right with the HVX, Zacuto plate rods and mattebox. Best of all the movement reminded me of a mini version of a Sachtler Studio 9x9 or dare I go there, an O'Conner. Priced at 2400.00 I feel it blows away any competition in that range give or take 500.
I was just about to give up on a tripod that can handle my heavy package and the stripped down one and still give that ultra smooth movement.
I know the Vinten lovers are rolling up their sleeves, but before you throws stones, just do a side by side. I tested it against a V 8. The Vinten is 450.00 more but it's movement was not in the same class. What I really love about the Miller is the steep resistance on sudden acceleration then the ease off. This is what true fluid displacement does that a friction head can never do. It's this steep curve at the head of sudden movement that makes a tripod smooth, especially in less than ideal circumstances (bumpy process trailers, subway, etc. ). It absorbs vibration and sudden shifts.
The only other head I found in close comp was the Gamma... at 800.00 more.
Miller's 3 year warranty says a bit about the build.
Will buy it tomorrow. Will give more reports from the field.
However, if I were to rate by price:
Below 700 Lord knows
700- 1000 goes to Vinten 3
1000 to 2000 goes to sachtler 8
2000-3500 goes to Miller 25, X 15 and Gamma.
3500 plus O'Conner.
At the end of the day, a decent tripod is a good chunk of change but you'll have it much longer than your camera. Reviews are good starting point but don't chance it until you tried it. If I went by the level of positive reviews, I'd have bought a Vinten and would have been disappointed. Yet some folks dig them, obviously. So you have to test them.
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