TOP 5 SHOTGUNS! (for those with a budget)- READ THIS!

yeah, matts right. hmmmm. problem is that theres no external mixer, so even if you take two wireless, you dont have the channels to run them with a boom (or cam mic) cover (my favourite technique).. but I guess you could just drop the boom and go dual wireless, or 1 covering mic and 1 wireless.

i think you're in for a rough time audio wise jbrandon.. its not really possible to pull off really thick rich sounding dialogue with no sound guy. But then again, I dont know the style of your doccy, or the story. is it quite VO driven? Cuz then sometimes location audio just has to fill...

If you can try keep your audio "targets" very focussed and realistic: like, Ill be shooting dialogue on THIS guy now, and I've planned it so I dont need anyone elses sound front-n-centre, you might be ok.

Heres something to remember: rifle mics like to record ONE SOURCE AT A TIME. Maybe a hyper is actually the way to go for you (more forgiving), with the senn416 for one on one interviews, and a wireless for when you need it. Oktava MK012. oh how we go in circles. actually, its just me.
 
thank you guys very much for your advice, definitely helpful! Sometimes I feel like a crazy man for trying to do this project without years of experience under my belt, but it's a total leap of faith that I'm willing to take I guess. I'm a novice in many ways, not even sure how the sound channels work on the camera, but thankfully I have a friend here who is a great sound guy who will at least train me a bit before I go.

timapter - you are from South Africa? It's a short flight up to Ghana, why don't you come up and help me with sound? haha! (only half-kidding)...
 
Hey timapter,

GREAT thread and thanks for taking the time and trouble to do this!! People like you really make this forum what it is.
 
MattinSTL had actually turned me onto the AKG series. I got the 480b condensor, which is the more expensive in their Blue Line (switchable) series, but I love the sound & warmth it picks up. Right now I've got it with just the hypercardiod capsule, but plan to purchase the shotgun capsule soon. With the shotgun combo, it's a solid $1K+ mic anywhere in the states, but Matt also turned me onto RVACanada, where you can get AKG for about 40% less than you can anywhere in the states.
 
Uh huh, Matt has mentioned them before. Ive never actually used one, and there isnt a lot of coverage of them on here... but I hear they're great. Is the blue line generally used more as a hyper, or as a shotgun?
 
but do you have any idea which caps are most commonly used out there? LIke, for example, the ME66 is pretty much the only cap used with the K6 system, and the Hyper cap on the Oktava system is most common for dialogue caputre. Im just curious, Id like to check the Blue Line System out.
 
The way it was explained to me was this: Shotguns are better for exteriors, hypers are better for interiors, when capture dialogue, etc.

However, if you were to have only one, then the hyper will cross over into both fields better than the shotgun will.

Based on that, I acquired the hyper capsule first, and will get the shotgun capsule soon, hopefully. Two VERY professional mics in one ... saving money in the long run.
 
Envision said:
The way it was explained to me was this: Shotguns are better for exteriors, hypers are better for interiors, when capture dialogue, etc.

However, if you were to have only one, then the hyper will cross over into both fields better than the shotgun will.

Based on that, I acquired the hyper capsule first, and will get the shotgun capsule soon, hopefully. Two VERY professional mics in one ... saving money in the long run.
Click to expand...


All 100% right on the money.

The reason I don't get as "in your face" about this mic is because ALL mics are matters of preferrence to some degree... and there is NO danger of my reputation in pushing somebody to an Oktava. I've only had 1 person out of maybe 30 hard recommendations... who complained about the Oktava... and the FIRST thing I said was "you don't have the -10db cap on there do you?"... Then I got a "oops... sorry... yeah the mic sounds great now thanks."

The AKG ULS system is not cheap... not even from RVA. Sure it's way cheaper from them then it is down here in the states, but you've got to be pretty serious about sound to go this route. And again sound is subjective. I like the sound of an Mkh60 much better then a CS3e... but many experienced sound guys say the exact opposite. Same goes for this system... Personally I REALLY like the sound of it... but I have other mics and I'll never lose interest in other mics... it's just my nature I guess.

But since it was brought up I will say that the AKG ULS series is actually quite amazing... even at the higher price. The reason I use it is because really there are no "weak links" like there are in the Blue Line. The ck98 shotgun cap is decent, but a 4073a is probably better... (blue) With the ULS the ck69 shotgun cap sounds as good as any $1K gun (in my opinion) and you have the added value that it comes as a modular Long/Short gun. You can just screw on extra interference tube and suddenly a gun which performs similar to an Mkh60 will be more like an Mkh70. That's pretty cool and I don't know of any other mic like that. (This cap is WAY more then all the other ULS caps... which are sub $200 and this one is $500+)

An Oktava has been called "the poor man's Schoeps"... but the ck63 hyper could be considered "the middle income man's Schoeps"... because you can instanly hear the difference between an Oktava and a Schoeps... and you can instantly hear the difference between the Oktava and ck63... but the margin isn't nearly as wide from the ck63 to Schoeps (in my opinion). There are probably as many tapers out there using ck63 as there are using Schoeps. Don't get me wrong... I'd have the Schoeps if I could afford it.

So anyway... the value in the ULS line is that really there are no weak links. It would be as if Sennheiser made a modular system within the MKH line rather then the ME line. Every cap is full and natural... and the body is very versatile with 3 levels of bass cut and 3 levels of pad... all combinations available. The ONLY criticism I have of the ULS (which I always make clear) is that you must be aware of handling noise. That means knocking, bumping, or tapping the mic or the mic cable close to the mic. You shouldn't be doing that ever ANYWAY, but with the 416 it's not even an issue.

Every Schoeps owner treats their mics with great care... and that's all I'm saying about the ULS is you should treat it the same way and you'll be happy. The 416 doesn't care what you do to it... when recording or otherwise! If you have a problem taking care of your gear then you have been warned... and if not then you've been informed.:thumbsup:
 
Great info Envision... and thanks Matt, also awesome. I just saw a guy in another post and thought id add this to this post:

BUYING LESS THAN THE MICS ABOVE:
I know a lot of people dont have cash to buy fancy gear. I know because Im one of them. The mics in this thread are considered THE LOWEST SHOTGUNS YOU SHOULD GET IN TERMS OF QUALITY AND RELIABILITY! If you can't afford even the cheapest of these mics, then dont buy a mic yet. If you really need a mic, then RENT, dont buy, and wait til you're ready to start at a good level. Mics like Azdens and other unknown type brands just arent worth the money.

I can say this because Im an idiot and bought all these mics when I was younger and just getting into sound. BOY DO I WISH ID SAVED THE CASH AND USED IT ON A SENNHEISER416! Trust me guys, Ive thought about this long and hard. We ALL know what good sound sounds like, but only these mics (and up, obviously) will put you on the right path to getting good sound.



I know all the other guys on this forum will back me up on this. Hopefully that helps YOU, the guy considering an Azden or similar mic because it seems decent.

:) tim
 
As Winston Churchill said: "My tastes are simple. I am easily satisfied with the very best." :grin:

It is true, though. When you go too cheap, you end up paying more in the long run--because you have to buy twice!
 
timapter said:
Great info Envision... and thanks Matt, also awesome. I just saw a guy in another post and thought id add this to this post:

BUYING LESS THAN THE MICS ABOVE:
I know a lot of people dont have cash to buy fancy gear. I know because Im one of them. The mics in this thread are considered THE LOWEST SHOTGUNS YOU SHOULD GET IN TERMS OF QUALITY AND RELIABILITY! If you can't afford even the cheapest of these mics, then dont buy a mic yet. If you really need a mic, then RENT, dont buy, and wait til you're ready to start at a good level. Mics like Azdens and other unknown type brands just arent worth the money.

I can say this because Im an idiot and bought all these mics when I was younger and just getting into sound. BOY DO I WISH ID SAVED THE CASH AND USED IT ON A SENNHEISER416! Trust me guys, Ive thought about this long and hard. We ALL know what good sound sounds like, but only these mics (and up, obviously) will put you on the right path to getting good sound.



I know all the other guys on this forum will back me up on this. Hopefully that helps YOU, the guy considering an Azden or similar mic because it seems decent.

:) tim
Click to expand...

Tim makes a great point. Like Tim, I went through just about every sub $1000 microphone before finally settling on the one that I liked, the AT4073a. I still stand behind my opinion on the 416 being good for pros but not enthusiasts though
 
I found a good sound clip which compares a Sennheiser 416 with a Rode NTG-2. This is done by www.tyford.com. Here's a link to the compressed file.

The 416 is in the left channel and the Rode is in the right with a 10db boost on it (I think).

This makes me wonder which one I should get... I'll be using it directly into the camera, no mixer or anything. Will the Rode have enough oomph to get the job done? From this sample, It sounds like the 416 does a much better job (duh?). I'd like to hear some more thoughts on the NTG.
 
timapter said:
Pastywhite boy - Keep in mind that the AT897 isnt last, its fifth best! But the points you've mentioned are all very valid. I actually placed it fifth for its low output level, which makes it harder to use effectively without an external mixer or preamp.
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First off, thanks for an incredible thread - one of the best I've seen on a site full of great threads! For those of us less experienced users (ok, newbies) currently using the AT897 straight into camera, do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions beyond staying as close and as correctly oriented to the subject as possible? Thanks again!
 
I am ready to buy a short shotgun. I have the budget for a 416. I am however without a lot of experience in sound. That being said would I be better served by buying a AT4074 which may not be as critical to use? I am a fast learner and have a technical background.

Which would be best suited to 2 person outdoor interviews. I already have an Octava for larger coverage.

Other mic suggestions would also be of interest.
 
Neurodancer said:
I am ready to buy a short shotgun. I have the budget for a 416. I am however without a lot of experience in sound. That being said would I be better served by buying a AT4074 which may not be as critical to use? I am a fast learner and have a technical background.

Which would be best suited to 2 person outdoor interviews. I already have an Octava for larger coverage.

Other mic suggestions would also be of interest.
Click to expand...

I have always had a technical knack and began field mixing since October. Since then, I have gained tremendous knowledge from exile, matt sl, wabbit, yankee, etc. But it was experimenting and experience that really put my knowledge to use. I am fascinated with sound and now hope to go to the next level of sound design.

IMO, if the shotgun was going to be camera mounted, I would go with a AT4073A with a rycote softie. That's really the only time i use mine for ENG work.

I would not put a 416 on a camera. Boom this mic and use a good zeppelin. See if you can buy used. Im looking for a used MKH60.

Since you have the budget and technical background, I say go for it. It is a great mic, just practice to learn the sweet spots. I even use mine for voice over work.
 
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