too quiet and too loud..can't get close enough..?

[rfrink]

I'm an hobbiest and with little experience and a new DVX.

I volunteered to record a music teaching session so I put the DVX on a tripod as close as I could...about 30 feet from the instructor. My mic is a RODE VM mounted on the camera. Just to be sure I got usable audio, I placed a Zoom H2 on the floor in between all the music stands: see frame grab below.

I listened through headphones while recording. At this distance, the vocal conversation was very low on the audio level...while watching the audio meter, I cranked up the input to try to achieve a decent level..this also cranked up the back ground noises and echos in the room...but I was OK with that. The big problem was when the students played their instruments, the audio was way too high and would peg the scale. I really couldn't get comfortable with a happy medium..it always seemed too high or too low. Faintly hearable..or blownout distorted. The audio levels seemed to constantly vary such that I really couldn't ajust it to float around some value...-12DB for example.


I just dropped the footage on a timeline this morning and it's not as bad as I thought...but still too loud or too quiet. The results from the Zoom are similiar. The end result will require me to constantly amplify and diminish the audio track in post..to try to bring out the voice conversations without blowing out the instruments.

I think I need a way to limit the loudest levels. This way I could really turn up the input to capture the quiet stuff...without destroying the audio track when things get loud. I can't find a feature like this on the DVX...like a psuedo AGC for audio.......does it exist?

Any advice on how to manage these types of situations? I really don't have the resources to buy more equipment...and in this case, I had only a few minutes to set-up. Whattaya think I should do next time?

Sincere thanks!

-Rob

 

[RandomHero]

Here's my suggestion. Set the Zoom to record the instruments' audio without pegging, regardless of how the voices will sound. Then, place your camera so the VM will pick up the voices at an acceptable range, and shoot at that audio level with the VM regardless of how the instruments sound. Then, in post, dump both audio signals in, and just swap out signals from each device depending on which sounds better at which part in the tape. The Zoom will probably capture the instruments better anyway in that setting, and the VM as a mini shotgun mic will sound alright when recording dialogue. Just my input

 

[ullanta]

First of all, in a situation like this, your goal with digital audio is always to avoid peaks. Peaks are far worse than low levels.

If you're setting a constant level, set it so the loudest sound is just below peaking (in a sound check, if you can), and leave it there. Engage the limiter for safety. Boost levels as necessary in post.

The ONLY way to get good audio in this situation is to get a microphone close to the speaker's mouth. A teacher walking around is very tricky unless you have a lav of some sort. At least, with your setup, try to put the H2 at the far end of the group, near where the teacher stands the most. Unless you have a mic very close to her mouth, getting her voice loud enough will always bring a lot of noise.

However, there are some additional tricks:

1) set the camera so that a mono signal from the Rode goes to both channels 1 and 2. Set Channel 1 gain for the talking, and channel 2's gain for the loudest parts. Then... mix 'n' match in post.

2) Use the auto gain control on the H2.

2) Get a mixer that will let you ride the gain effectively.. and learn to predict levels based on the "flow" of the class and the teacher's style.

 

[rfrink]

Good info! Thank you for taking the time to post.

The channel 1 and channel 2 concept really opens the door to options. I need to play with this idea to see how I can use it.

Thanks again!

-Rob