Too much light from softbox?

S

slondon

Well-known member
What's the right distance between a softbox and the subject?

I'm interested in doing handsome single person interviews with soft, flattering lighting, some modeling, separation of the head from the background and a lamp or pattern in the background that's out of focus but eye appealing. So I finally get a 2' X 3' softbox with 500 W 3200 K lamp and fabric grid and go for it. Using white foam core just out of frame for fill and a 250W Lowel Prolight on a dimmer for a hair light. The room was small and I think the softbox was 3' - 4' from the subject.

First thing I notice is that it's soft and pretty but the softbox puts out a lot of light. (what would I use a 1000 W globe for?) Too much light, it seems, for the overall look I want which is one of a subtle, subdued quantity of light (maybe 1 stop under) for the key, not blazing noonday. The amount of light is great in one respect as it allows me to dial in neutral density and then adjust the exposure for a nearly wide open aperature giving me the least DOF which is part of what I want.

But the brightness on the face, it seems too much. So interview shooters, what is the right distance from the softbox to the face? Range? How do you set the exposure so you don't get a bright image (not worried here about blown out highlights, I'm below that) ? Do you have to use ND? About what f-stop do you use and how underexposed can I go without looking crappy? How many watt lamp do you use?

Any and all thoughts sincerely welcome, thanks. But I'm sensitive to scolding :)
 
Hi Slondon,

Either pull the light away to 6+ feet, get a dimmer, or a lower wattage bulb - 500 watts is too hot at 3-4 feet, softbox or not. You could tweak your shutter, gain, or add an ND filter but you'd still be melting the subject's makeup at 3 feet.

Regards, Michael
 
Ways to reduce the softbox light output without affecting "softness:"

1. Buy additional baffles from softbox manufacturer, and install in softbox to reduce its output.
2. Attach a tough white diffusion (e.g. 216), gridcloth, ND gel, or net in front of softbox to reduce its output.
3. Place a 24" x 36" single or double net, or 24" x 36" polysilk in front of the softbox to reduce its output.
4. Put dimmer or Variac on softbox to reduce its output.

Note: The further away your source is from your subject, the harder the light (it becomes more like a point source). The closer your source is to your subject, the softer the light. Moral: moving the light away from your subject (to reduce its illumination), makes the light less soft (resulting in harder shadows). Although there is no "right" distance, placing your key only 3'-4' from your subject is closer than most shooters would place a key (about 6' is more common). It's not because placing a key 3'-4' from your subject is "wrong," it's just often more practical to place the key a bit further away to clear the shot. Again, the closer the light is to your subject, the softer the light (albeit, brighter by a factor of '2' squared), so, technically it's not "too close," it's just not typical.
 
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Hi all:

Has anyone ever heard of scrims? Most of the methods suggested here will work but scrims are the quickest and easiest way to reduce light output without changing color temp and quality.

I shoot interviews 2-3 days a week and I usually have a small Chimera between 2.5' and 4' from talent. IMHO, with an HVX, a 1K in a small softbox is overkill, I use a 650 and even then I usally have to throw a single or sometimes a double scrim in front of it. The HVX is rated at ASA 320, that's actually a pretty sensitive camera, although not as sensitive as the mighty DVX is.

My favorite interview setup is a 650 through a small Chimera with a 40 degree eggcrate as a key source, a white and gold 36" flexfill as a side fill, an Arri 300 watt fresnel place high on a lightstand near the camera bouncing down on a 4' piece of white foamcore at the feet on the interview for glamour/underlighting. I typically use an Arri 150 fresnel as a hairlight and or kicker with barndoors, a single scrim and a small snippet of opal diffusion. If the talent has deep set eyes and I am not getting good catchlights, I will use an eyelight place on a 40" C-Stand arm directly over the lens on a dimmer with barndoors and another piece of opal to soften and not blind the talent.

This is my typical starting place although for certain situations, I use totally different gear.

Best,

Dan
 
I'm really grateful for the informative responses and the amount of detail and suggestions made and I am aware I've hearing from very experienced professionals. I understand all. Thank you.

I'll try moving the softbox back and also experiment with the various other ways of cutting the light quantity. The instrument I'm using is a Photoflex Starlite, which uses a Mogul base lamp that fits entirely within the softbox so AFAIK there is no scrim that can cut the light at the instrument itself. Ideas welcome.
 
slondon said:
I'm really grateful for the informative responses and the amount of detail and suggestions made and I am aware I've hearing from very experienced professionals. I understand all. Thank you.

I'll try moving the softbox back and also experiment with the various other ways of cutting the light quantity. The instrument I'm using is a Photoflex Starlite, which uses a Mogul base lamp that fits entirely within the softbox so AFAIK there is no scrim that can cut the light at the instrument itself. Ideas welcome.
Click to expand...

You could use these.
http://cinemasupplies.stores.yahoo.net/18x24sinscri.html
 
On the CHEAP.. go to a fabric store and buy Black Tule.. This is the fabric very similar to what is used in nets like OZDUC was nice enough to show you.
Like Rezfactor suggested, this can be placed over the front of your softbox.
This will NOT affect COLOR BALANCE, and will knock your light down a stop or more, depending on how many layers of this fabric you choose to use. I bought a whole roll to use on windows...Good luck.
 
Thank you, I did pick up some tule at your suggestion and it looks great. At $1.29/yd it was also cheap and I got enough for several layers. I'll try it soon.
 
Good deal.. good luck.
P.S. If you ever need to use it on a window to knock down the light coming in, and this window ends up in your shot....Make sure you keep the fabric very taut against the window..Wrinkles or gathers in the fabric are very obvious.
 
filmat11 said:
Good deal.. good luck.
P.S. If you ever need to use it on a window to knock down the light coming in, and this window ends up in your shot....Make sure you keep the fabric very taut against the window..Wrinkles or gathers in the fabric are very obvious.
Click to expand...
what would you use to atach the tule to the softbox with if you wanted to angle your box downward?
 
Just an after-thought. If this fabrics primary use is just to "Knock down the light from your softbox". You might as well go ahead and cut some of this fabric to size for the face of your softbox. You can either add velcro to the corners and attach it inside(some softboxes use small hooks) . Ring the whole outside edge with velcro and attach it to the front(depending on softbox)Or cut 1 piece , say 3-4 inches longer and wider than front face of your softbox, and add a stong, but liteweight rod or dowel for strength, to all outside edges. Very easy to use C-47's(Thanks Matt) to attach this to the front. When finished, just roll it up. You can do the same with 2 layers of fabric, maybe even 3 layers if you need it. Just a thought anyway.
It might last longer than to have this fabric loose, or simply folded...You can keep the whole thing in a tube until you need it.
 
Puredrifting Dan... I like your 350 aimed down at some foam core for glamour/underlighting... you mean neck area? I'll have to try that. Annd what type of light do you use for an eyelight? Household on a c-stand?

thanks
 
Dudes-- SCRIMS. You're gonna have floppy rag tag Minnesota Fabrics rags hanging all over your set?

Pro it up a notch for the love of all that is holy and cinematic. SCRIMS SCRIMS SCRIMS SCRIMS :beer:
 
jonnyh1968 said:
Puredrifting Dan... I like your 350 aimed down at some foam core for glamour/underlighting... you mean neck area?
Click to expand...
No, actually it puts a nice glow on the whole face, it's an old glamour/beauty trick, it adds soft fill from below. If you are in a tight CU, you can actually have the talent hold a piece of foamcore or a small Flexfill in their lap for the same effect.

jonnyh1968 said:
I'll have to try that. Annd what type of light do you use for an eyelight? Household on a c-stand?
Click to expand...
Arri 150 fresnel with barndoors and a small sliver of opal.

thanks[/QUOTE]

Best of luck,

Dan
 
I coundn't agree more about the scrims...I guess I was under the impression of a micro budget. A couple of scrims on ebay shouldn't cost more than $ 15-20 bucks, if his light can support these accessories..
 
Many speed rings still allow the use of wire scrims. These have the advantage of being easily "tunable":

1/2 single = near 1/2 stop
single = near 1 stop
single + 1/2 single = near 1 1/2 stops
double = near 2 stops
double + 1/2 double = near 2 1/2 stops
double + single = near 3 stops

With just these 4 wire scrims you can have a very controlled output level with no disadvantages (color shift, point source behavior, etc). Normally, the use of a 1/2 scrim would be to control output in one area vs. another, but with the heavy diffusion that a soft box adds, it will behave like a fractional stop scrim.

Rez is absolutely right, don't walk the source in and out as you will change its characteristic as well as its output. Softboxes are meant to be placed close to the subject, at a great distance they are just low output point sources.
 
Hi all:

If you go back and read, the OP is using a Mogul base, there is no way to use traditional wire scrims because of the light type. He could always use flag type scrims or ND gels inside the softbox.

Best,

Dan
 
I can only echo what has been said recently...SCRIMS. Sure other suggestions would work, maybe, but be professional and use what the professionals would use in this situation. Khmuse posted all the info on their affects above. Happy shooting.
 
hey guys id love to use scrims but i dont see where i could attach them on this flood http://www.briteklight.com/twin600light.html take into account ill be ataching a softbox to the ring!

i emailed britek about this 2 weeks ago and havent gotten a response yet!
on another note dont buy thier softboxes they are as cheaply made as they look. the first time i set 1 up , the metal rod went right through the poorly sewin pocket. i had to sew it by hand and buy a small plastic nob to put on the end of the metal rod to remedy this!

i wish i would have researched this compant before buying , but i needed some lights quick at the time...
 
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