Too Long for a Short, Too Short for a Feature

Eric Boellner

Eric Boellner

Well-known member
Thought I'd liven up the Screenplay/Writing section a bit, and talk about an issue I don't really hear talked about much.

What do you do when you don't have enough material for your feature-length script?

Has anyone else ever had this problem? I know most writers have the problem of overwriting, and that's addressed in tons of screenwriting books and essays I've read - but no-one really talks about underwriting.

It's something I've always had to deal with, because I generally keep things very short. Right now, I'm working on a screenplay that I originally intended as a short film - but I'm about halfway through and I'm already at 35-40 pages. I figured, hell, why not just make it a feature and actually have a chance to make money?

So that's what I'm doing. Problem is, I'm about halfway through and I'm only at 35-40 pages. <grin>

I'm not really asking for advice. I'm working on some subplots and adding a character and another obstacle to the hero's journey, as well as some tension between supporting characters, so I should have my bases covered.

I was just wondering:

A.) Is this something that is common? Have you guys dealt with this before?

B.) How do you, personally, deal with it? Do you cut, cut, cut and shoot for a short film? Or do you try to fill it out into a feature? What are some pros and cons you've found with your methods for dealing with this?

Michael
 
Never had to deal with it, but I'd imagine I'd start at strengthening the B story and possibly add C, D, and E stories as necessary as long as they parallel and strengthen the theme.

Forty pages in doesn't sound too bad. For a saleable screenplay, 88 pages wouldn't arouse suspicions.
 
I'm pretty new at this but it always happens to me. I can't do a short that is less than 30-40 pages but can't seem to do a feature over 60 pages.
 
Same here. Every time. I've written 15 feature length screenplays and every time I slow down somewhere. It's part of the process. What I usually do is start breaking down the story into an outline again and look at where I can extend the story and so forth. You can start with the 2 endpoints, beginning and end. Look at where the main character starts and where he is going. Then look at the problems you constructed along the way. Each story has a different style but you can look to John Truby's 22 block style that follows the aristotle structure. That worked for me in the beginning.

Write a synopsis on your story. Does it work? Is there anything missing? Write a short story about your character. What made him who he is. Do this with the antagonist and protagonist. It's good to have a ghost from the past anyways that the main character has to overcome.

Try different ways of approaching the story. Read books about the subject. Whatever it takes to get the fires burning. For every 100 pages I write I throw out about 90. Just keep pluggin away and something else will stick. Just my two cents.

Here's my personal format...

I usually start with an outline. Then start outlining and realize my outline sucks. Then I rewrite the outline again and start writing again only to realize that my writing and my outline suck. Then I go crazy and start throwing things. Then I roll up my sleeves and try hacking away bit by bit until I end up with something. It's usually not pretty but I think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I set it to the side and come back to it a week later and hate it - it sucks. Then I repeat these steps over and over again - showing it to trusted friends and others - reading it out loud with actors until it gets better and then I finally let go. It's as good as it can get until I get notes from a producer or director and then start the engines again.

Hope this helps. Keep pluggin away at it.
 
The more research you do, the more you understand the rules of your world and the more ideas you can generate to fill it.
 
Great stuff, story2rewrite. I do pretty much the same, only I don't write nearly as much as you do. <grin>

A lot of times, to fill out the script, I'll explore supporting characters' stories instead of trying to add "filler" to the hero's story. This usually makes it more of an ensemble piece, like Crash or Brooklyn's Finest, but I'd prefer that over making the hero's story boring and long and unnecessary.

But it really helps to outline and have a good idea of how much material you have before you get into the script. That way, you can make changes without having to rewrite 40 pages before finishing, because you realize you need to add a character. I like to use index cards, and loosely stick to Blake Snyder's "Beat Sheet" method. I mostly just use it for organization and naming of the plot points, rather than for following a specific story formula - though I don't believe following a formula is necessarily bad, and Snyder's is certainly one of the best to follow.

Michael
 
vcassel said:
Never had to deal with it, but I'd imagine I'd start at strengthening the B story and possibly add C, D, and E stories as necessary as long as they parallel and strengthen the theme.

Forty pages in doesn't sound too bad. For a saleable screenplay, 88 pages wouldn't arouse suspicions.
Click to expand...

Yes, the B story is usually a great place to start when looking to lengthen things. For me, the B story was already pretty extensive, so I had to expand C and D, like you said. It's really about finding what relates the characters to each other and seeing what more there is to be explored in those relationships, all while remaining "on topic," if you will. When you find two characters who get along, throwing a monkey wrench into their relationship (an affair, betrayal, corporate backstabbing, what-have-you) can cause tension and give you something more to work with. Though, one should be careful not to ruin a relationship that the audience might find more satisfying if kept wholesome.

Yes, my end goal is a little over 90 pages. I'd settle for 85 pages for the first draft, if it comes to that, but I'd prefer at least 90. I know some movies are going under 90 minutes these days (88 Minutes, Cloverfield, etc.), but I'd rather not have the stigma of being in a separate group like that. In the end, though, I'd rather have 85 great pages than 100 decent, so we'll see how it goes. <grin>
 
What I've found is that certain stories call for certain lengths. It's not just a matter of material or quantity. It's matter of what there is to be said. I think if things peter out at around 40 pages, then the story hasn't been either conceived or cooked up enough to require 100 pages to tell it. I'd say really think about the idea. Flesh it out, dive deep into the story and characters. Let stuff sit, and when eventually something takes hold, you won't be able to stop at just 100.

When I'm "writing", I actually spend about 90% of my time just sitting around thinking about stuff. I don't write until it's clear in my head first. Saves on the typing.
 
i would recommend reading a lot of other scripts, especially those in the same genre as the one you're writing, and then breaking down the structure of those scripts to see how they do it. see how many scenes there are in a feature, how long those scenes run, and how they weave the different storylines together. doing this may seem tedious, but i think it's essential if you want to learn the structure.

also, i would look at amping up the conflict for the main story.
 
kiyong said:
i would recommend reading a lot of other scripts, especially those in the same genre as the one you're writing, and then breaking down the structure of those scripts to see how they do it. see how many scenes there are in a feature, how long those scenes run, and how they weave the different storylines together. doing this may seem tedious, but i think it's essential if you want to learn the structure.
Click to expand...

+1

I'm actually currently reading Cormac McCarthy and it's helping a good bit too. <grin>
 
As a bit of a related note. Technically a short is under 30 min. However very few festivals will seriously consider a short over 15 min. These days a lot seem to be aiming at 10 min. So that 30 page sort is probably too long to get shown.
 
Yeah, that's why I'm shooting for a feature instead. I could cut have cut it mercilessly and probably made something worth watching at 10-15min. But I think the story better suits a feature length, and it only took a little retooling to get it there.
 
Sounds like its either a short thats not tight enough, or a feature thats not fully thought out. I suggest approaching it at a different angle..... re-write, and then when you think your done, re-write again.
 
Unfortunately, the filmmaking world doesn't really have a viable parallel to the literary novella. Transforming 40 pages into 100+ will probably require some serious structural overhaul. There's only so much fleshing out you can do if a premise doesn't have the legs for a feature.

Now, if you were closer to your target page count, I'd recommend trying the reverse of some of the tricks that Terry Rossio outlines here.
 
Good suggestion! I might actually try reversing those techniques if the second or third draft is still under 100 pages.

As a side-note, Terry Rossio is the s..t. Anyone who wants to work in Hollywood and isn't keeping up with Wordplay is shooting himself in the foot.
 
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