Tips for Working With Bad Actors?

T

tommygdawg

Well-known member
Hey all,

As a no budget film maker I'm constantly forced to work with "actors" who don't really understand what it is to be an actor. They come to set unprepared, they don't understand the characters or the stories, they don't know their lines, and worst of all they just seem to be pretty poor actors. I tend to beat myself up a lot as a director because I feel like I should be able to do something to make them good...but I have to wonder if there really is anything I can do to make poor actors at least acceptable? Is there something that I should be telling them to do or some secret trick to get better performances?

I explain the scenes in detail and what the characters should be feeling, but the actors never seem to get it. They either just play themselves or play a poor imitation of the character. How do I get inexperienced and often times just plain poor actors to feel and show real emotion? Or, am I simply expecting too much? Any thoughts would be great. Thanks!
 
As a Medium budget, Micro budget and No budget film maker with experience in working with Great actors and bad actors alike, I have the following answer to your question:

Tips-for-Working-With-Bad-Actors:

1) Don't.
2) You will regret it later.
3) See numbers (1) and (2)
 
Now for some constructive advice:

Put the same, if not more effort into procuring the right actors for your movie as you did when you slaved over the script.
No camera movement, lighting, blocking, editing or sfx can cover bad acting.


Take this advice from someone who has learned this the hard way!
 
up/down/up/down/left/right/left/right/select/B/A/Start. That is the secret trick.

Seriously. How is your acting skills just out of curiosity?
 
Wilbur, thanks for the thoughts. Im beginning to see what you mean and agree.

Also, I'm no Tom Hanks but I can act if I need to. Why do you ask?
 
First thing that came to mind is "if you know how to act, just give them insghts/realizations that you have learned over time about acting". Or maybe try making it personal for them. Let's say in a scene a character just had all their money stolen. Instead of saying "ok the character Billy just had his money stolen, he's mad, pissed, that's his motivation".

Talk to the actor for a minute about their most prized possesion, a car, a house. A 6,000 dollar camera. Now tell them to imagine it got stolen, or trashed, or burned to the ground or all the above. "Now imagine this antagonist just did this to your stuff". How would they feel? And action!

But I've never directed actors or acted myself soooo...
 
tommygdawg said:
They either just play themselves or play a poor imitation of the character. How do I get inexperienced and often times just plain poor actors to feel and show real emotion? Or, am I simply expecting too much? Any thoughts would be great. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Since 'seasoned' directors have used 'untrained' actors... it would seem that while there may be 'bad actors'... one should look inward and analyze 'bad director'...

Of course it could be that in desperation to get anyone in front of the camera, one takes... well... anyone who shows up...

I think you, the director, should have a clear idea in mind as to what sort of performance you are looking for. It could very well be that a person 'playing themself' is in fact what you should look for in an 'untrained' actor. The performances I see in some of the clips, and from my own short film activities, seems to indicate that most people 'over act', with lots of head motion, hand, arms and body. Some people don't like rehearsals, some wished they had more time.

I've been reading a book with a series of interviews with Martin Scorsese. In many of his early films, he would do a lot of 'improv' with the script 'as written', and modify the script based on the improv results. Now of course you can claim he was working with a 'young' Di Niro, or Keitel, or the like... but not every actor or actress he had in front of the camera was destined to become a great...

I have seen this book mentioned by others:

http://www.amazon.com/Directing-Actors-Memorable-Performances-Television/dp/0941188248

And I'd recommend it for getting into 'how to talk to actors as a director'... since a director is not in the business of 'teaching' acting, there is a certain assumption that the 'actor' is more that just someone who came in off the street.

But if you are an actor, had have attended some acting classes, then you can perhaps use rehearsal time to do some theater games to get the 'non-actor' into 'acting mode'... If someone is not willing to do that... well then obviously... don't ask your girlfriend to be in your movie... if the person is not your girlfriend... then say, sorry, but no thanks...
 
tommygdawg said:
I explain the scenes in detail and what the characters should be feeling, but the actors never seem to get it.
Click to expand...

This may be itchy - but is your explaining appropriate? With "appropriate" I mean have you accepted that you may need to talk to a non-professional actor differently than to a pro (and with pros you also may have to talk differently to any of them in a way)? Are you able to not only explain to them what you want it to look like but can you also explain to them the often rather individual and different way how they can get there?

Especially with non-pros you are all the time in danger that if you only explain the first - they will give you a perfectly embarrassing copycat version of things they may have seen in the theater or the telly. There is nothing more disgusting than watching people act out their "I-do-it-like-Anthony-Hopkins" fantasies.

And it often happens that directors try to explain what the result of the process in rehearsals should be. But may have problems with the process itself. Some feel insecure that in the process of working with actors things may change or need to go around before hitting "the mark".

But, yes, you have no chance whatsoever if you work with people who can not act but just take a fancy in doing it. A lot of people want to be an actor - but only a few like to become one. They don't like the process of "becoming" - which is work, work, work. They believe they already have it - that the tooth fairy has given it to them or that they are the Paul Potts talent show equivalent. Only out there to be discovered soon. So they will very probably play like they think an actor would play and not like what the character should be. They have no concept of the character - they only have a concept of themselves being great actors. And usually this looks and sounds heartbreakingly terrible in the end.

These are the people - amateurs and sometimes even pros - you need to avoid at any cost. And for the others, the numb nuts you can not motivate there is a saying in my country: You can't carry a hound to the hunt. Meaning: If it doesn't run after the boar on itself do not even try to make it run.

And: I still, at times, try to re-read some things by Lee Strassberg - and not from the dozens of Lee Strassberg-teach-alikes - to try to find a way into an actors brain. There still is a lot of wisdom to be found in the original.
 
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You may or may not have heard this before but there is an old saying

"90% of directing is in the casting"

You'd do well to heed those words of advice.

They either just play themselves or play a poor imitation of the character
Click to expand...

I think this highlights a misunderstanding on your part of what the process of acting is. The best actors are always playing themselves. They're just playing themselves in someone else's situation.

Also, one of the tenets of low budget filmmaking is play INTO your weaknesses, not against them. As a director at any level you need to stay flexible and if that means altering the script or the character in a way that works better for your cast then go with it. Your job as a director is to spot the fakeness and get rid of it. I was listening to an interview with David Fincher when he was asked why he does so many takes and his answer was that he needs to get "the way they were rehearsing it in the show that morning" out of the actors system.

Another thing that has helped me immensely is to take acting classes. Besides helping me understand the actors process, watching the instructor handle green actors has really helped me as a director with actors who are struggling.
 
Thanks for the comments and insight, everyone. I agree and disagree with some things. I'm willing to concede that I may not be the best director in the world, I do have a TON to learn. This is my passion and I desperately want to learn everything I can to get better at it. The problem is, as tipota said, the people I work with on the majority just seem to "take a fancy in doing it." For instance, an important actress in a project I'm doing now, she once tried to start up a singing career. She was having a FUN time (note, fun) until someone was finally honest with her and told her she was terrible and needed to do something else. I feel like the same is true with her acting. The problem is that I held a casting call and she was the best I could find.

When searching for local actors it's really hard to find truly talented and committed people. So, telling me to hire better people is really quite unhelpful because you work with what ya got. If all you have to build a house is a few logs, ya make do. That's an extreme example, I know. I feel like in the best case scenario directing is about getting a different performance from your actors as opposed to trying to at least get a believable one.

Truth is, I DO look inside myself a lot to try and find better directorial skills, hoping it will make these people better. Sometimes, yes, it may be me. But a lot of times, you can just tell when people aren't going to get any better.
 
There are many techniques to get a performance from your actors.
Here's some ideas from Judith Weston that may help you........

Instead of asking the actor for an emotion, attitude, more(or less) energy---use an action verb.
For example, ask them to play the scene as if they are "accusing". Good direction is playable direction--
that is, it generates behavior. When you do your script analysis before hand, come up with these action
verbs for each character in the scene and note it on your script.
When an actor is struggling, you can ask them to simplify and listen to the other actor in the scene.
Examples.... "Give the lines to each other, keep it simple." "Let yourself hear what she is saying."
"Watch her eyes". "You can pay attention to each other." "It's OK to engage, be affected by her."
Asking you actors to listen to the other person in the scene makes them connect--instead of just doing
her line, my line.
 
bruce southerland said:
Good direction is playable direction--
that is, it generates behavior.
Click to expand...

+100 for that one. There are a lot of "workarounds" with actors - both professional ones and the more able amateurs. It's sometimes hard to find out what makes it playable for which actor as this may be individually rather different. Visiting at times an acting school in my student days in film academy I realized that the students - when getting stuck with over-complex layers of motivations or too much they wanted to show at the same time - responded rather well for the situation "you are waiting at the bus stop highly concentrated because you have to tell your wife who is on the bus that you are going to divorce her" when the teacher asked them to forget all pre-conceptions and just do a rather complex calculation or remember the names of all pupils they shared the classroom with as first graders.
 
Wilbur Eddings said:
Now for some constructive advice:

Put the same, if not more effort into procuring the right actors for your movie as you did when you slaved over the script.
No camera movement, lighting, blocking, editing or sfx can cover bad acting.

Take this advice from someone who has learned this the hard way!
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Directing is 90% casting. I learned that lesson when I shot this short (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH3LcNZkIi4). There's really only so much you can do with an actor that is untrained and doesn't prepare.

In every city there are theater groups and people studying theater you can find who are willing to work on low/no budget productions.

If that doesn't work, typecast and try to find people who already fit the mold of your character.

I actually have a very skilled director friend who does this often. The key ingredient is finding someone with the passion to dedicate time/energy to the role, and someone who is able to take direction. These are both things you should be able to discern in the casting process.
 
tommygdawg said:
Thanks for the comments and insight, everyone. I agree and disagree with some things. I'm willing to concede that I may not be the best director in the world, I do have a TON to learn. This is my passion and I desperately want to learn everything I can to get better at it. The problem is, as tipota said, the people I work with on the majority just seem to "take a fancy in doing it." For instance, an important actress in a project I'm doing now, she once tried to start up a singing career. She was having a FUN time (note, fun) until someone was finally honest with her and told her she was terrible and needed to do something else. I feel like the same is true with her acting. The problem is that I held a casting call and she was the best I could find.

When searching for local actors it's really hard to find truly talented and committed people. So, telling me to hire better people is really quite unhelpful because you work with what ya got. If all you have to build a house is a few logs, ya make do. That's an extreme example, I know. I feel like in the best case scenario directing is about getting a different performance from your actors as opposed to trying to at least get a believable one.

Truth is, I DO look inside myself a lot to try and find better directorial skills, hoping it will make these people better. Sometimes, yes, it may be me. But a lot of times, you can just tell when people aren't going to get any better.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree my friend. As a director if you don't take complete responsibility over your final product you are wasting your time. I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Stop blaming lack of talent. There's talent everywhere. Instead of asking how to make bad actors good, you should instead find how to find good actors! Everyone is saying it because it's true.

Understand this - you...cannot...force...someone...to...be...passionate...about this art. If they don't have that burning fire, then yes, they will be bad.

I've found actors with bad habits ALWAYS show those bad habits in the casting process. Actors who don't know their lines in auditions, won't know them on set.

Lastly, maybe you need to re-evaluate your writing. Does the writing allow for an elevation of rising conflict in the scene? Do your characters have strong and opposite objectives? Do your characters elevate their tactics to meet these objectives? Is it honest?

What is your rehearsal process? Are you creating an enviornment that allows for the talent to discover the material with you in a way you both will be happy with it?

Don't mean to be so hard on you...but stop bashing actors. Take more responsibility for your films and I think you will see this problem go away.

Just my two cents....
 
No such thing as a bad actor. Just the wrong person in the wrong scene/place/film. Like the pros have said: casting is half the job then you need to create an environment that's open and fun and easy to work in.
Oh, the one thing I've done all my life is talk to actors one on one. Never scream direction across a set to an actor. Get off your ass and walk over and talk to them. If you've got playback on set, show them a take and gently suggest a different way of doing things. I had a great actor tell me once, that he had 3 variations that he would deliver and then your just getting number one recycled if you don't give some actual direction. Relax, have some fun and enjoy working with talented people. It's the best way to make a living in the world.
 
I admit that I am a very high pressure director.
I get severely pissed if actors pitch late, don't know their lines or screw with my production time.

After having my ass wupped by critics and investors for weak performances from actors I 'gave a chance'; I now simply refuse to struggle with lazy, undisciplined people who are not as passionate as I am about my project.

I am busy casting my first serious narrative for the year (did two others for fun this year) and have already fired two leads before they even got to set!

The below stuff will sound harsh but it's (more or less) the speech I give new actors or crew who we audition to join the team and it shows their attitudes immediately!
Whether we do freebie passion based projects or bigger budget Indy efforts, I give the same speech.

I might be heavily judged for this but here's my minimum requirement for cast (my crew agree):

1) Salute the rank, not the person.
I'm the director, it's my head on the chopping block if this project tanks. You get to blame it on me, I have no-one to blame. The investors feel the same.
Understand my pressure and take direction like it's free chocolate!

I don't care if you think my DP has a bad attitude. Live with it, he works a thousand times harder than you and I do. Suck up to him so that he doesn't make you look fat on screen.
Same goes for my AD.

Help me make this project great or piss off and get involved in something you are passionate about.
I'm not a dictator and I do not want to become one so don't force me to make things uncomfortable on set.
I don't need to 'earn your respect', neither do I desire to 'earn' yours. We respect each other's function and do our best to create a great working environment for each other.

Thus if you cannot respect me before you even meet me, Piss off. hahaha.

2) The project comes first.
No rain nor hail nor sleet nor PMS nor death in the family nor boil on your ass outranks the project!

That includes your snobbish spouse who thinks I should pay you more.
(I meet actors with their spouses and if i do not like the spouse, the actor fails the audition.)

If your boyfriend won't let you kiss our lead, dump his ass or we'll dump yours!

(This is where I give the "I once filmed for three days with an arrow through my testicle" speech).

3) Respect the team.
Dissing any member of my cast or crew is dissing me. I am a touchy guy with a temper that should not be unleashed. Myself and half my crew playfully MMA each other at every available moment. We would be more than happy to show you an arm-bar followed by a rear naked choke.

If you have a problem with someone on the team, respectfully pull them to the side and share your offense maturely.
If it cannot be resolved there, bring it to me!
If you humiliate someone publicly, I will surely return the favor and try my utmost to bring a tear to your eye.

And Finally) Be passionate about your role! You need to know more about your character than anyone on the team (including me). Write a Bio, do research, change your diet and own the role. I work my ass off to make you look good, make my job easier and the audience will notice!

Believe it or not, this really gives us a great atmosphere on set with epic camaraderie and we all know we have each other's backs.
It's friggin awesome :)

When it comes to directing acting, I hardly do any of that once the casting process is over because the cast generally know their scenes and roles better than I do.
We'll do a read through in character a couple of times before the shoot and lock onto characteristics but I don't like fiddling with performances.

I prefer to direct their positions in the blocking and movement for the camera etc.

I'm a director, not an actor, if I have to tell you how to do your job we're both screwed!


DISCLAIMER:
I'm not an award winning director or anything, so take my advice with a pinch of salt.
0.02c
 
Wilbur Eddings said:
I now simply refuse to struggle with lazy, undisciplined people who are not as passionate as I am about my project.
Click to expand...

It's unrealistic to expect others to be as passionate as you are about your own project. Crew and actors are hired to do their job well, not to be passionate. Two different things.
 
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