Tips for shooting indoors

C

c.g._eads

Veteran
As I watch a lot of the footage on this site, I've noticed that some of these shorts can look so great when we're outdoors, and as soon as we get indoors it screams "AMATEUR!" Everything seems to look more video-ish and low-budget (in a bad way). My question is, what can you do to improve your indoor shots (and when I say "indoors", I basically mean shooting inside of a house or an apartment)?

I'm looking for specific insight here. Not "make sure your lighting is good". How should I light things to look more professional? How should I dress the room to make it look more professional. Where should I put the camera to look the most professional? (and on the other end of the spectrum, what mistakes do amateurs usually make)

For instance, I learned on the Garden State commentary that you always want to light the side of your actor's face that is away from the camera. I didn't know that. I know not to make the walls white. What else is there? What else can I do???

ce
 
Hi c.g.

Played 3 hours of tennis tonight; worked

-

The answer to your question is a bit more complicated and part of the answer is
what you do not want to hear

1. Use more light

2. Learn to create depth using light (anyone remember the drawing of the apple in school?)

a00.jpg


Learn to light creating depth on your subject

3. Motivational lighting

Pay attention to where your light should be coming from in the scene. Bounce your light, use flags to control the spill

==

You gotta really practice lighting in your spare time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never heard the lighting away form camera rule per se much more than a key on one side or the other to create depth (no matter where the camera is)

Look at the apple.

Paying attention to the light in the background as well as practical lighting is important as well

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
 
Hi C.G.

No tennis excuses for me, but I'm getting writer's cramp getting Christmas Cards out the door. So I'm going to cut-n-paste some excerpts on lighting from my favorite book, "Matters of Light and Depth" which I've paraphrased as Lighting No-No's:

Don't forget to pre-screen location for lighting
Don't use flat light which burns out foreground
(undiffused light on camera mount)
Don't use hard light for fill
Don't forget about color temperature
Don't ignore shadows
Don't ignore talent/subject, planes, mood, and media
Don't let lighting overwhelm the scene and story
Don't ignore sources that motivate a scene
Don't light everything in the room exactly the same
(including planes)
Don't use identical lighting intensities, distances, angles
Don't arbitrarily use colored lights
Don't make background brighter than subject/talent
Don't obscure subject/talent with background
Don't ignore contrast problems
Don't rely on light meters, especially if non-uniform light
Don't use hard undiffused light on shiny objects
Don't forget lighting consistency between scenes
Don't light transparent/translucent objects from front
Don't shoot in rooms with 8 foot ceilings
Don't forget lighting and composition are interrelated
Don't forget lighting, time, and movement are related
Don't necessarily move lights with talent/subject
Don't ignore available light sources
Don't overdo lighting
Don't place boom mic on same side as key light
Don't shoot exterior portrait with only overhead sun
Don't ignore safety considerations

Actually, C.G., I'm not a negative guy so let me dig a bit more and find a bit more that focuses on the positive:

Lighting Attributes, Objectives, Function, & Direction

Seven Attributes of Light
1. Quality - hard, soft, in-between
2.Intensity - amount of light
3. Direction - axis relationship between light/s, subject/talent, and lens
4. Color - temperature of light/s emitted
5. Beam Patterns - shape and shadows
*6. Size - effective area
*7. Distance - from source/talent to light
* Size & Distance affect other 5 attributes
Objectives
Enhance mood, atmosphere, drama
Separate planes
Imply depth
Reveal character and texture
Complement composition
Direct attention to or away from elements
Convey time of day, year, movement
Influence overt, subtle, or subliminal emotion of the audience: reward/punish, confuse/bedazzle, etc
Function
Key light - character, mood, and modeling
Fill light - subject/talent contrast and shadow control
Back light - separation, focus, and deliniation (and character - strong top light unflattering)
Background light - separation and mood
Kicker - modeling and character enhancement
Accent, Eye, Clothes: accentuate specific zone
Direction - Angle/axis between light/subject-talent/lens
Key light typically offset 15-45 degrees horizonally as well as vertically (light, subject/talent, lens)
Camera light is (unfortunately) 0 degrees offset horizontally, 5 degrees vertically
True rim light is 180 degrees horizontally & vertically

Okay, if I've done my job well, you'll go out and buy this fantastic, all-time classic book. BTW, on another note you are using a macro lens, aren't you? What about your filters, gels, iris/gain/shutter settings and... ah heck, gotta get back to the Christmas Cards!

Regards, Michael
 
Last edited:
there is no quick answer.
get on to amazon and buy a couple of "lighting for video" style books.
http://www.pqhp.com/cmp/dvxe05/topic3.htm?launch=yes#
have a look at the lighting seminar on this webcast.
you are looking to lift the light level of the whole interior, and put light in to the shadows (if that makes sense)
every room has a different light solution, every style of filming (doco / drama) has a different light solution.
in my opinion the one thing that make's me shout "home movie" is the lack of steady shot's. Why don't people use tripods anymore

Ian (shooting news and doco's for nearly 20 years)
p.s. when it comes to lighting : i'm still learning
 
John_Hudson said:
I've never heard the lighting away form camera rule per se much more than a key on one side or the other to create depth (no matter where the camera is)
Click to expand...

Yes, there is such a rule: "You always frame from the shadows".

The idea, of course, is to create depth.

But that rule is hardly used in film/video lighting, because "the actors have to be lit"...
 
It's a good beginning that you noticed that something was "wrong" on the footage you saw.

This question is a bit overwhelming and hopefully you are not intending to go out and shoot a serious job now, without answering the questions on your mind.

For me the first thing to do is to have a look at how nature and artificial lighting works to create depth, including of course the tricks our eyes play on us to "fill up the voids". Make some notes on contrast observed.

The second would be to have a look at paintings from the "light masters": Rembrandt, Vermeer, Renoir, etc. Make notes on how light is handled.

The third would be to take a film camera (a digital would do, but might provide some wrong concepts) and shoot some stills. Print them.

Now sit and compare your notes with the stills you got. This should teach the first rule in lighting: that you have to educate your eye. Then you can learn how to create volume, which is what makes things tri-dimensional and, in the end, look real.

The reason why indoors lighting doesn't look "right" for you is because outdoors nature provides the lighting. Indoors you have to, following a certain logic, which you must learn how to handle.

The easier rule to follow indoors is light according to your sources: a window, a fire, a table lamp. If they are in the frame it's OK, but if they are not you may light as if they exist anyway.

If you made your homework right and you took any photos on roof-lit rooms, with no floor lamps or side windows around, you will notice that the faces will look "top-lit": dark eye shadows, ugly lighting. That's because our eyes fill-up the shadows in normal life. Such a lighting is something you have to avoid, except on very dramatic situations, for effect.

What I call "non-source" situations is where you light with very directional lighting, trying to reproduce how nature or your eye would handle contrast if there was any light present. This is the most common situation you may find in most films, where another rule comes in to play: contrast or ratio.

That is, how dark or clear your subjects are and in what areas. This is usually rated according to the genre: 2:1 or 3:1 for comedy or light drama; 4:1 to 6:1 for drama or suspense; higher ratios for effect.

So in the end I would say light direction and light contrast are the main rules that should be applied indoors too. When they are not followed, because you don't know how to control them, you will feel something is wrong.

This is a very long and exciting path. Books may teach you, but practice will teach you more. Learn from your mistakes and you will get far.


Carlos
 
Last edited:
Hey guys. Thanks for the tips so far. I've already learned a lot. And good job on the practice John. I havne't played 3 straight hours of tennis in over a year. As soon as I get done teaching every day, I try to get as far away from a tennis court as possible.

Any non-lighting tips? Camera angle or set dressing or how I should choose my locations. Moonlitnite, you said not to shoot with 8 foot ceilings. I think I know the answer to this, but why? It may be my only option. If so, what do I do to combat it?

Thanks again.
 
C. G.,

Well, if you have a 8 vertical feet and require 1-2 feet for an overhead kicker, then how do we do a medium shot without cropping the shot only inches above the 6 foot tall leading man? Or perhaps you want the key light raised to simulate the sun, with reflections high on the subject and low shadows. Of course, bouncing light off the ceiling diffuses and softens a hardlight, losing depth. You get the idea - 8 foot ceiling require lighting compromises.

When you can't remove drop ceiling panels (office environment), Ross Lowel's book suggests shooting at a down angle with the talent seated. As Ross points out, that now presents another problem filming a corporate executive; this produces an undesired subliminal effect of diminishing the talent's stature - but maybe that's not a *BAD* thing if you're filming an Enron exec <wink>

Regards, Michael
 
Last edited:
Carlos_E._Martinez said:
Yes, there is such a rule: "You always frame from the shadows".

The idea, of course, is to create depth.

But that rule is hardly used in film/video lighting, because "the actors have to be lit"...
Click to expand...

I get the jist of it; but is it stated as such ? Where is this rule ?

I can pull four hundred and twenty two millions samples of the talent lit from a light source coming from the cameras direction

-

Again, I seen the implied idea but, a rule ? Who said this ?

(I'm, looking for the source.) :dankk2:

But that rule is hardly used in film/video lighting
Click to expand...


Well that kind of narrows it down, huh ? :laugh:
 
John_Hudson said:
I get the jist of it; but is it stated as such ? Where is this rule ?

I can pull four hundred and twenty two millions samples of the talent lit from a light source coming from the cameras direction

-

Again, I seen the implied idea but, a rule ? Who said this ?
Click to expand...

Well, that's something that was taught to me in film school. In actual lighting lessons. And we shot actual frames showing one case and the other.

We never asked where that rule was written, because you could see it why. Probably one of those things that you learn and forget. But if you get to see the difference you will always look for that effect in your lighting... because it looks quite good!

But I remember seeing things like that in photography books, with a clear center square over a black outer square and viceversa.

In practical situations you may not be able to do that too much, but given the chance or when in doubt, try shooting from the shadows.

It certainly fits well when shooting outside, with the sun 3/4 back and a strong shadow on part of your character's face. If you look for drama, there it is, a good start.

There's a sequence in "Days of heaven" where the two facing characters in a wheat field were shot against the sun, because it looked the best. In real life one would be in the shadow and the other in the sunlight.

Another exercise that worked quite well was to see how many surfaces made an object look more real. That helped you frame better in order to get more volume. E.g.: shooting three faces of a cube instead of two.
 
Last edited:
Ahh I see

I was interested in exploring it more. I am by no means the expert; but I try and understand it as in the Apple drawing above. Creating depth using light on any object and no matter which way the key is facing ....

-

The cube example you mention; yes ! It is something exactly like this that helps create depth on the 2 dimensional image.
 
Yes. The cube, the apple, the orange are all primary examples that illustrate things better because they are so simple. You never forget about them, and I think they are very much the abc from which you start to paint and frame.

Composition is very important and has to do with the above. Zoom lenses and steadicams are much better used when volume enhancement is looked for. Nothing obvious, of course, but subtle and invisible. Felt but not seen, if possible.

Well, that's the way I like it :).
 
Hi John & Carlos,

My thoughts are that it's not so much that there's "ideal" light parameters, but more of what are we trying to accomplish in the scene. First off, we have the seven attributes of light:

1. Quality - hard, soft, in-between
2.Intensity - amount of light
3. Direction - axis relationship between light/s, subject/talent, and lens
4. Color - temperature of light/s emitted
5. Beam Patterns - shape and shadows
*6. Size - effective area
*7. Distance - from source/talent to light
* Size & Distance affect other 5 attributes

So we adjust the attributes based on the objectives of the scene:

Enhance mood, atmosphere, drama
Separate planes
Imply depth
Reveal character and texture
Complement composition
Direct attention to or away from elements
Convey time of day, year, movement
Influence overt, subtle, or subliminal emotion of the audience: reward/punish, confuse/bedazzle, etc

And while we normally think of these objectives for our talent, it still applies to inanimate subjects.

Regards, Michael
 
this is a great thread - would be really cool if someone could post pics/framegrabs to illustrate various poings like "imply depth" or "separate planes"
would make for a nice beginner guide

The other thing i notice is that DOF plays a huge role indoors since our cameras (w/o 35mm adapters) really cant do too much in your 12x15x8 room...

anyone have better results with things like promist filters?
 
FiddlerMD said:
this is a great thread - would be really cool if someone could post pics/framegrabs to illustrate various poings like "imply depth" or "separate planes"
would make for a nice beginner guide

The other thing i notice is that DOF plays a huge role indoors since our cameras (w/o 35mm adapters) really cant do too much in your 12x15x8 room...

anyone have better results with things like promist filters?
Click to expand...


What I think you could do is take a camera and shoot yourself an example on every aspect moonlitnite lists, which is very thorough.

By doing that separately you may identify what changes and why.

For photography lighting, one of the better illustrated books with actual examples is "Painting with light". Its description on how light changes during the day on a room and how to do that with light is one of the best there is.

Pity the present edition I think has less photos than the original I read many years ago, but it still is very much alive. The good thing is that light units and film negative are much better today, so things should be simpler to accomplish. But the principles are still the same. A good place to start.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top