Timecode - dual system

L

lacuna

Well-known member
I've done a lot of dual system recording for DV projects, but I haven't used an audio recorder with a timecode reader/generator like the Fostex FR2 (well, support for this feature is apparently on the way).  

Excuse my ignorance, but to use the timecode functions on a unit like this or the SD744, is it simply a matter of programming the unit and hooking it up to a camera with SMPTE timecode like the XL2 - using the FR2/SD744 as master - and you're away...

If so, what socket is it connected to on the XL2?  If not, what other pieces of equipment are required in the chain and does it take a lot of work to administer?

Any input appreciated - thanks!
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

the xl-2 doesnt exept ext tc as i know  like the dvx or sony hdv , so the only way to makee it is to run free run tc in the start of the day , to shoot slate  clap and do the ofset  on the computer , since there would probably be drift between the mashines , you have to do it every few hours and sertanly after each battery change


the other way is to hook tc transmitter to the sd and transmit the tc to the audio channel on the camera , the nle can read the tc from the audio channel and synchronize the both files ( the sd file and the video file)
for prevent any tc brakes while the transmition -you can hook Ambient or dynikey synk boh on the camera which would suply tc to the audio channel on the camera , to syncronize( to jam) the box with master tc from your audio recorder

and work comlitly separetly - this method is good for free run tc only ( and this is the way that the things done on the big jobs with sony 900 or varicam - no one like the stability of these cameras - but the tc is not going to audio channel , its jrunning to ext tc input on the camera )

this way you can work  in record run mode as well on the sd , the only thing you have to whatch that the the sd would run olwais befor the camera
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

Thanks for the detailed response Oleg - actually I have a DVX100 at the moment (not the A model) and I have no idea where a time code generator would be hooked up - I assumed the XL2 had an additional socket.

Where would you hook up an SD or Fostex unit to the DVX?
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

No mini dv camera is timecode capable, so you wouldn't hook anything timecode into it, unless you recorded it onto an audio track on the camera. Even then, it's a pain in the @$$ because you have to take the audio out (headphone out) of the camera and plug it into the tc in of your interface.

You have two other options. Use a smart slate. Jam the smart slate from your timecode master, and put it in front of the camera, just like you see in all the behind the scenes stuff on DVD's. You can then line up the timecode on your audio file with the running timecode on the slate. No timecode will actually be on the camera.

You second option is just to use a dumb slate, and manually line up the clap.


-Dave
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

[e=01/07/05 at 12:01:14]No mini dv camera is timecode capable,
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No true - all of them have tc , not all of them have tc in or out socket option
jvc , and panasonics big dv do have
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so you wouldn't hook anything timecode into it, unless you recorded it onto an audio track on the camera. Even then, it's a pain in the @$$ because you have to take the audio out
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not true - almost all nle can reed tc from audio track and syncronize or create new file with tc fom audio track
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(headphone out) of the camera and plug it into the tc in of your interface.
dave - there is rca or xlrs on most of the cameras and dv players :-)


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You have two other options. Use a smart slate. Jam the smart slate from your timecode master, and put it in front of the camera,
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this would cost extra - but you dont have to clup - the syncronization by hand any way

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You second option is just to use a dumb slate, and manually line up the clap.
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the cheapest way

Oleg

-Dave
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

I was under the impression that there wasn't a timecode generator or reader in mini dv cams. Plus, as we stated several times, they have no timecode i/o on them, so therefore, they really arent timecode capable in the sense of using that timecode with other devices.

I'm not a big fan of timecode on the audio track. My feeling is, if the budget allowed for proper tc use, ie. cutting in the avid, hi-def cams, timecode audio recorder, master timecode generator...the whole bit, then it's worth doing. If you are shooting on a mini-dv (dvx100, xl1, xl2...ect), then I would shoot double system...record the audio on the camera, and run a non-timecode backup of some sort. Chances are, if you're putting timecode on an audio track, then you're not cutting in an avid, your cutting in FCP. If you try to import audio files with timecode on them into FCP, FCP will drop the timestamps. There is a really expensive program called sebsky tools you need to put it back, so if you're low budg...chances are you arent going to have this at your disposal. If you're low budg, chances are you don't have an audio interface with FCP. Your probably just connecting the firewire port on the camera to the computer and just dumping it in. If you don't have an interface, then you have no way to get TC into FCP in a linear way, say on the TC out of a PD-4. So.....if you are shooting on mini dv, you don't have timecode i/o on you're camera. It's not worth the hassle of putting it on an audio track when you don't really have to. I am a fan of audio on the camera...if it is done right...as well as having the backup audio recorder. That way, when you dump the picture into whatever you are cutting picture on, your audio is already there. If you need to grab something off the backup machine, then you have that too. Just make sure your sound mixer too careful sound reports so it's easy to find what you need. This ends up saving you time and money in the long run, which is what shooting low budg is all about.

-Dave
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

Thanks for taking the time to spell that out for me - that's exactly what I wanted to know! Couldn't be clearer.
 
Re: Timecode - dual system

dave , you are absolutly right about that if you dont need trec tc on audio trak , you dont do it ,but ......
low budget or budget documentary work in free style moovies and not documentary **** dv in free style 1 million budget moovies that i did in the last few years brought me to work this way
when you dont have time to slate and the reability of the dv tc is something that no one wont to take chances the tc on audio track is the only way to be shure that the syncronization in the aditing room would take wery small time .look if someone have home system for aditing and do it in his spare time thats cheap , when someone do high budget moovie with dv and they take kid to make syncronization and put all the shotes in order befor the real aditting , thats cheap but for all the rest ,the time in aditing for synchronization comes very expencive ,
my point is - this is the only way to make it relible and cheap for automatic synchronization or if you prefer rec run tc on your audio and video .
of course you can star free run on both mashines and do of sets in the aditing room between these becouse there will be drift after few hourse but you are in dangeraus that durring the day after pb , battery change or any other **** the dv rec go mad and put something else on its tc track and then you are in abig problem ( remember we are talking about no slate situation )
 
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