TikTok is now the most popular website

That data may pertain only to salaried staffers rather than to freelancers. But i suspect that Doug doesn't have a representative view of the industry because the people he knows are probably comparably successful, which is to say at the height of the field. Also, you have to factor in newcomers and future drop-outs, both of whom should drag down the average
 
Average earnings for a TikTok contributor: $.10 (would ahve been a negative number but was skewed upward by a few folks who make millions).

That NYC number does not surprise me, nor does it mean anything to those NYC tv/film/video professionals who have above average skills, work ethic, and brains. And those people would never call themselves a "videographer".
 
Actually, maybe scratch that, possibly a skewed tool...you can type in any logical position and it will generate numbers for it.

'Wedding Videographer' and 'Influencer' both were valid entries and had their own set of numbers.
 
Doug Jensen said:
And those people would never call themselves a "videographer".
Click to expand...

You call yourself, "Freelance Cameraman and Director of Photography".

Is Freelance Cameraman usually preferred over Videographer?

Did you ever hear Videographer in the 80s or 90s?
 
ahalpert said:
That data may pertain only to salaried staffers rather than to freelancers.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. I forget about those guys and it can also be a very good career move. When you factor in any benefits they may get, such as healthcare, dental, vacation days, sick days, pension savings, bonuses, maternity leave -- plus the fact that they probably only work 40 hours a week and have plenty of time for side hustles (such as stock or weddings in the weekends) I''ll be that real number is close to the equivalent of $100K. Just an educated guess.
 
NorBro said:
You call yourself, "Freelance Cameraman and Director of Photography".
Is Freelance Cameraman usually preferred over Videographer?
Did you ever hear Videographer in the 80s or 90s?
Click to expand...

Yes. I've hard the term videographer. Who hasn't? And yes, freelance cameraman is preferred over videographer. I have never called myself a videograpjer nor do have any close friends who would ever call themselves that. 60 MInutes, NatGeo, and such clients don't hire videographers. That ugly term has a lot of "hotel AV" stank associated with it. Might as well show up for the shoot with a tie and white shirt. If someone calls themselves a videographer, they have just taken a pay cut with potential clients.

BTW, at the other end of the spectrum I have never called myself a "cinematographer "either because that is too grandiose and does not describe what I do. Titles matter to clients.
 
I asked if you ever heard videographer in the 80s or 90s. Just was wondering if it existed then, but it's not important.

One time, my friend, who's a snob, asked my other friend why he calls himself a Director of Photography if he hasn't done anything in Hollywood.

We were all younger and I didn't say anything because I thought it was a good question.
 
Oh, I didn't know you were being so specific about dates. Yes, that term was around in the 80's and 90's. Now that you know, what's your point?
Why does your friend think that a Director of Photography can only be found in Hollywood, is he an imbecile? Maybe you can ask him if he thinks all stock brokers work on Wall Street.
 
Eh, we've lost touch. But he wouldn't have time for me anyway...he's above freelance cameramen, or videographers, or hotel AV, or directors of photography, or whatever they are called.
 
Okay, well let us know if you ever reconnect. I think this conversation has gone off the rails. I've had enough, and I hope you have too. :-)
 
But if you go then there's only two of us left and I'm not talking about Star Trek all night again.
 
'DP' is the term I most hear bandied about. Typically as initials, not as full words. Sort of a catch-all for lighting cameramen. (Photographers don't seem to have the need to make as many distinctions.) For example, my auction house client calls all the freelance cameramen on their roster 'DPs' regardless of whether they show up to shoot an interview, tabletop/artwork beauty, a gallery tour, event coverage, or documentary footage.

The only time I call myself a videographer is in the context of shooting weddings. To me, it means a one-man band on informal productions.

But I apply to gigs postings that request DP, Director of Photography, Cinematographer, Videographer, Camera Operator, Cameraman... probably some other terms I'm not remembering

I agree with Doug that titles are important to clients. But I don't think they're always meaningful
 
To me there are two extremes with nothing in the middle. I dislike 'Cameraman' but 'Director of Photography', 'DP', 'Cinematographer' all sound like blowing smoke when they're used outside of a large-crew context*.

Cameraman - As well as excluding women, being named after one of the pieces of equipment you use is not a sign of a high-status profession. I never heard a journalist referred to as a 'Laptopwoman'. And it feels more than a bit cheeky sometimes - I came up with the idea for this shoot, planned it, lit it etc. and my job title suggests I could perhaps be replaced by decent autofocus and a tripod. Paradoxically, that isn't even a convincing objection as the more you do on set, the lower status your role is! Better to be the Assistant Lens Blower Operator for Roger Deakins, apparently.

*though I have used all of these terms
 
NorBro said:
Actually, this turned into an interesting conversation...

Just for fun, I checked out CareerBuilder's calculator (what do they know? IDK, maybe something), and here are their results for NY, NY.

Maybe it would be cool to get an anonymous poll going on DVXuser to see how many members agree or disagree with this. (I tried a few other states and the changes aren't too drastic.)

https://www.careerbuilder.com/salary...in-new-york,ny

Click to expand...

So glad I didn't move to New York when I had the chance.
 
ahalpert said:
I agree with Doug that titles are important to clients. But I don't think they're always meaningful
Click to expand...

I answer to many job titles and don't really care if I'm on the callsheet as a director, Shooting PD, DoP, camera op, or even filmmaker but If someone calls me a videographer or worse, content creator, there will be trouble. Makes me come out in a cold sweat just thinking about it.
 
Andy9 said:
Cameraman - As well as excluding women . . .
Click to expand...

I don't mind being called a cameraMAN and I have no problem referring to specific males also as cameraMEN. If I am talking about a specific female in that role I will use the term cameraWOMAN. But if I'm talking about the profession in general, I use the generic term Camera Operator so as to encompass everyone equally. This is especially important when I'm working on a large sports or reality production with lots of operators.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I don't mind being called a cameraMAN and I have no problem referring to specific males also as cameraMEN. If I am talking about a specific female in that role I will use the term cameraWOMAN. But if I'm talking about the profession in general, I use the generic term Camera Operator so as to encompass everyone equally. This is especially important when I'm working on a large sports or reality production with lots of operators.
Click to expand...

That's a reasonable use of language. Although I feel like being called a camera operator implies a more limited role regarding shot choices and lighting. Which is probably accurate in the multicamera situations you describe. But not for situations where one is deciding the coverage and lighting, etc, IMO

I also feel like the suffix '-man' is one of the least problematic issues of gender equality we face. Seems rather like an implicitly gender neutral terminology in English. And personally, I'd rather be given equal opportunity and pay than a gender neutral term. But I do use the term cameraperson for a woman or to refer generally to the profession
 
ahalpert said:
Although I feel like being called a camera operator implies a more limited role regarding shot choices and lighting. Which is probably accurate in the multicamera situations you describe. But not for situations where one is deciding the coverage and lighting, etc, IMO
Click to expand...

Yes, I totally agree with that. If someone is responsible for lighting, shot blocking, etc. they are certainly more than just a camera operator and their title, such as DP, should reflect that. But when I'm in that role I prefer people just call me Doug.
 
Liam Hall said:
So glad I didn't move to New York when I had the chance.
Click to expand...

You won't believe this but I was just talking to New York the other day on the phone...it was like, "Gosh, I'm so glad Liam didn't move here when he had the chance."

Small world, man...small world.

___

Alright, let's break it down:

Camera
Cameraman
Camerawoman
Cameraperson
Camera Guy
Camera Gal
Camera Operator
Camera Pilot
Cinematographer
Content Creator
Director of Photography
DP
Double...Double Play (sorry, that's baseball)
DoP
Filmmaker
Hotel A/V
Lighting Cameraman
Lighting Camerawoman
Lighting Cameraperson
Photog
Shooter (Becareful with this one...don't ever preface with 'active')
Tripod Jockey
Videographer
Video Shooter
Vlogger
[Insert Name] E.G. "Just call me, Stacy."

Now remember, everybody...it is absolutely critical you choose the correct description.
 
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