Thoughts on Litepanels Astra "4X" Daylight LED? It's on sale right now...
- Thread starter Jim Feeley
- Start date
Are there any other daylight panels in this price range ($500-ish) that packs as much punch as the Astra 4x? Usually once you get above 100w, the prices really start going up. I think the Aputure LS1 costs about the same, but I think the Astra is brighter.
I haven't followed some of the new releases of LED panels. I have a couple of the super lightweight Travor flex panels as well as a couple higher powered LED fresnels. Just have been wanting something in a panel form that packs more punch than the Travors.
I haven't followed some of the new releases of LED panels. I have a couple of the super lightweight Travor flex panels as well as a couple higher powered LED fresnels. Just have been wanting something in a panel form that packs more punch than the Travors.
MattWilliams
New member
I own both the 4x and 6x Daylight. There is no difference in brightness between them. Massive con. How can Litepanels say the 6x is 50% brighter then the previous generation astra (the 4x). It is a complete lie. The only reason I bought the 6x was because I believed their lie. I have contacted them about it (even sent in the 6x for them to test) and they have just dismissed my concerns.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
If you look at the photometrics between the LS-1S and the Astra, they have measured in such a way where you cannot make a direct comparison, the Astra is rated FC in feet while the Aputure is rated in FC in meters but if you do the conversion from meters to feet, you find that the FC is relatively in the same neighborhood, around 500-600 FC at 5'. I can say anectdotally though that I have done shoots with my LS-1S and the older Astra (3X) and the Astra seemed brighter, not buy a huge amount but I think they have more output.
Another more practical concern, if you are going to just put an Astra through a small softbox, I would heavily consider the Aputure 120D II with the Aputure Light Bank II instead. The light from the Aputure parabolic softbox is softer with round catchlights and more wrap, using gels is better/easier, plus you can also use the 120D II as a fresnel or spot when needed. LED Panels are one trick ponies pretty much whereas a Fresenel is much more flexible. The cost of the 120D II, the Light Bank II is almost the same as the Astra 6X BiColor on sale, unless you have to have bi-color? I have Bi-color and daylight only panels I rarely use the LEDs at 3200k but YMMV. There is also the Astra reliability, they are good lights but an alarming number of owners have had the power supplies go bad, these lights have had massive recalls and lots of reliability issues, I have a friend with three of them and all three have had to have the power supply replaced.
Another more practical concern, if you are going to just put an Astra through a small softbox, I would heavily consider the Aputure 120D II with the Aputure Light Bank II instead. The light from the Aputure parabolic softbox is softer with round catchlights and more wrap, using gels is better/easier, plus you can also use the 120D II as a fresnel or spot when needed. LED Panels are one trick ponies pretty much whereas a Fresenel is much more flexible. The cost of the 120D II, the Light Bank II is almost the same as the Astra 6X BiColor on sale, unless you have to have bi-color? I have Bi-color and daylight only panels I rarely use the LEDs at 3200k but YMMV. There is also the Astra reliability, they are good lights but an alarming number of owners have had the power supplies go bad, these lights have had massive recalls and lots of reliability issues, I have a friend with three of them and all three have had to have the power supply replaced.
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Have you measured them with no difference in light output?
Run&Gun
Veteran
Have you measured them with a light meter?
I'm actually more concerned with their poor engineering/design of the power boards that they use in them and lack of any corrective actions on their part(recall), than their output claims.
cpreston
Veteran
Just from looking at the specs, the 4x is a 110W unit and the 6x is a 105W unit. So... Physics.
It is hard for me to believe that companies feel free to market LED products with so much misinformation. I've learned not to trust any of it. CRI, intensity, beam angle. Even the max wattage can be deceiving when they include a "boost" mode where they just turn on all of the LED's until it overheats.
It is hard for me to believe that companies feel free to market LED products with so much misinformation. I've learned not to trust any of it. CRI, intensity, beam angle. Even the max wattage can be deceiving when they include a "boost" mode where they just turn on all of the LED's until it overheats.
The powerboards on Astra panels have been changed to avoid the common powerboard failure. Previously all power went through the power switch and that apparently was the cause of the boards going south. On the newer boards this is changed so hopefully that will keep the boards alive.
I'm also sceptical on how a 105w panel can be brighter than a 110w one as the original Astra already have mirrors on each LED. Unless the beam angle is changed.
I'm also sceptical on how a 105w panel can be brighter than a 110w one as the original Astra already have mirrors on each LED. Unless the beam angle is changed.
Run&Gun
Veteran
The Astra topic came up between me and one of our gaffers last week on a big shoot and he said he had spoken with a tech from Litepanels and the boards(at least the ones shipped in the lights from the factory originally) could not handle the surge of power on start-up if the dimmer was turned up and it basically would fry the board(eventually). He was told to turn the dimmer to zero and then power the light on, wait for the solid green light and THEN slowly turn the dimmer up to the level you needed. No one I’ve talked to has ever noticed any warning of that nature in any documentation and it blows my mind that if that is necessary, why they didn’t issue a bulletin or recall the lights and make the “soft start” an automatic feature(maybe that’s what the “new boards” are doing in a way).
I just had another Astra start to exhibit the power board issue about a week or two ago. That’s now FIVE of SIX Astra’s just for me. I’m not advocating it, but I’m sure if someone really wanted to, there is enough evidence of knowledge on Litepanels/Vitec’s end of this product being defective and them not doing anything about it until they come in on warranty(and I know people that have returned the same units for the same issue-the power board-multiple times) that someone could sue them and win. I don’t know anyone personally that owns Astra’s that have not had to send multiple units back for repair.
I've heard this before. When did they supposedly make the change to "fix" this, as is what time frame of product? 2018? How can you tell if yours are the improved ones? Certain range of serial #s?
I own 2 astra 6x bi color and I like them but every time I turn them on I think about this.
I own 2 astra 6x bi color and I like them but every time I turn them on I think about this.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I've heard this from you and from several colleagues who have multiple Astras. That's why I don't own any Astras even though they are pretty nice, powerful lights.
I have to say, even though my Aputures are cheap Chinese, so far, in almost two years of pretty decent usage, they have never failed. The only thing was one of my gaffers stripped a yoke tie down plate from overtightening it but that is my one LS-1S that I mounted an Arri speed rig to and that gets used with my small Chimeras so it has all of that extra weight to hold at differnt angles. I bought a replacement threaded tie down plate from Aputure's AliExpress site and so far, so good. But it's been nearly impossible to get a replacement tie down knob from them, even after numerous emails and orders. They seem to have a disconnect from the lady who answers the emails and the warehouse that actually sends out the parts, they keep sending me the wrong tie down knobs.
I have a DP colleague who just bought two more of the Astra 6X panels and he has sent all of his 3X and 4X panels back for board replacements. I kid him that he is a masochist.
rob norton
Veteran
I don't like any LEDs that don't turn on instantly. It's not ideal when auditioning lights e.g. waiting for the light to turn on, or panning off and on like with HMIs vs. an instant "on off on off". The intellytech's are great in this area because they're instant but who knows maybe I'm cooking the boards now lol.
I haven't shot any narrative but my lighting package gets hired for low budget short films. Turning on instantly makes lighting gags much easier, instead of anticipating and allowing for the delay before firing up. Dimming from 0-100 is OK but still a workaround.
For something like a gemini-sized light I think people would be more forgiving if it needed time to "warm up".
But if it's the difference between extending the shelf life of a light then I think everyone would rather an automated soft start over needing to return lights.
robmneilson
Veteran
I've sent back three Astras, and had another one go down that I gave to a friend to use. I've had to put a label on each that says "strike only when dimmed". It's annoying as hell, but has seemed to keep the lifespan of mine going a little bit longer. But for the price we pay for these lights, we shouldn't be concerned with frying our boards during normal use.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
There is a section in the manual that indicates that if you are turning off the Astra for less than 90 minutes, turn the dimmer all the way down vs using the power switch. This would certainly avoid the striking issue, and become something of an "instant on" for most purposes.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Since the Astras are made by a reputable company and so many have had the board/power supply issues, I think it is safe to say that they are a very popular, poorly designed light.
It's 2019 we shouldn't have to deal with this issue the same way that we had to be careful of restriking our hot HMIs three decades ago. Litepanels should recall every single one
of them and make this right. I tested and reviewed the Gemini last year, impressive light and it didn't have any of these issues that I could see in about a month of shooting.
Overall, I am glad I bought the Aputures instead. Not as much output but reliability is everything to me.
It's 2019 we shouldn't have to deal with this issue the same way that we had to be careful of restriking our hot HMIs three decades ago. Litepanels should recall every single one
of them and make this right. I tested and reviewed the Gemini last year, impressive light and it didn't have any of these issues that I could see in about a month of shooting.
Overall, I am glad I bought the Aputures instead. Not as much output but reliability is everything to me.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I still waiting for the Practilte 802s to come to market. I may replace my Astras with them and then use my Astras as a second light kit for when I'm double booked and crewing out a shoot.
There aren't really any other LED 1x1s (or equivalent) on the market that compel me. I am happy with my Luxli Timpani, but it doesn't have quite as much punch and power as an Astra, so the RGB is the real selling point of that light. I do want to buy a second Timpani.
I have 4x Astras and have been tempted to pickup some 6xs as I would like a fully kitted second lighting kit, but am wanting to move on from Astras for future purchases. They really need to come out with an RGB Astra.
There aren't really any other LED 1x1s (or equivalent) on the market that compel me. I am happy with my Luxli Timpani, but it doesn't have quite as much punch and power as an Astra, so the RGB is the real selling point of that light. I do want to buy a second Timpani.
I have 4x Astras and have been tempted to pickup some 6xs as I would like a fully kitted second lighting kit, but am wanting to move on from Astras for future purchases. They really need to come out with an RGB Astra.
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Good to hear about the Timpani. I am totally digging my Cello, they are really interesting lights. Have you checked out the Lupo panel? That's supposed to the 1X panel that even blows away the Astra 6Xs with sheer output.
I have to say, my lighting style on documentaries is primarily to compliment the natural light at the location, we rarely have the time to make a black box out of the location and really light. I've had some good luck on our second documentary in production, shooting in a lot of bars, distilleries and a few homes just using my Kamerar Brightcasts, two light kit, key through a 42" diffusion disc and the second as a rim/hair. Super simple and quick, both running off of batteries. I like the Aputures but all of the power supply spaghetti isn't good to deal with when you have super limited time, usually like 15-20 minutes per interview, not enough time to really finesse anything, just get it lit, make it look as good as it can and shoot.
But that's documentaries, where it is usually a two and sometimes a three person crew, lighting becomes very secondary and at times, we just shoot available light because of things happening around us where we need this shot now while a conversation or physical action is taking place. It's funny, watching documentaries, usually, but not always, the fancier the lighting and setup, the more contrived the interviews often feel.
To me, documentaries are all about capturing what's happening in front of the lens, not making what is in front of the lens wait, rehearse and become self-conscious about what they're saying or feeling. We shot at a Cancer clinic a few weeks ago and we shot a very powerful interview with one of our subject's family member, it was totally impromptu but turned out to be very moving and powerful. The lighting was terrible, really green fluoros only overhead but we didn't light because we had instructions at the clinic to be as low key and unobtrusive as possible.
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Not having enough time to do a decent lighting always leave a very unsatisfied feeling afterwards. I ran around a hospital last year with one Astra on Vlocks and did quick ten minutes interviews and even thou it didn't came out like the best I've shot it was so much better to have something to fight ugly overhead fluros than nothing.
But the power boards kept kicking me and each time I had to restart the panel a few times to get it up and running.
But the power boards kept kicking me and each time I had to restart the panel a few times to get it up and running.
robmneilson
Veteran
Thanks for that Charles, I'll do this going forward. Who knew it would pay off to actual read a manual!!!!