Thinking of buying a Macbook Pro + FCS, but first..

A

Abinc

Well-known member
Hey guys,
I have a DVX100B and I definitely need a new editing suite to accompany it, and I've been thinking about going along the lines of Final Cut Studio. The only thing is, I want to get the absolute best quality I can out of my camera in terms of an editing package, and I'm not totally convinced FCP is the best way to go yet. :(

How come so many of the amazing, high-quality videos I've seen in the "screen grabs" section of the DVX thread seem to be edited with Premiere Pro? I've heard people say that no one can tell which editing software you use when you present your final product, but I'm finding it extremely easy to tell which program is used when people post their videos. It seems like all the beautifully color-corrected, higher-quality uploads have been edited on PPro/AE (or Vegas even), and a lot of the lower-quality, grainy ones I've seen have been edited on FCP.... :(

And this is after watching 100s of shorts for the months I've been on here. Why is this? Does it have something to do with FCP's take on SD? Maybe I've just been unlucky enough to not come across any of the beautifully edited FCP videos? Please enlighten me, because I really want to make a switch to Apple, (I'm so tired of Windows)!
:violin:
 
Last edited:
It has nothing to do with FCP. FCP is used for major motion pictures and many television shows. The people who say you can't tell which editing software you use are correct.

The only correlation here is that the screens/clips/grabs you have seen here were from more talented people who just happen to be using PPro/Vegas. Why? I dunno. It's more common among indie's as its cheaper and Windows based.

FCP and Avid are the professional standards. That doesn't mean they are neccessarily BETTER than Adobe, in some ways it is, in other ways Adobe may be better. Depends on your use or application. The point is, it is certainly not worse. It is just a tool to do the same thing. The quality differences you are seeing revolve around the skill of the person, not the software.

If you really want to go Apple, go Apple. If it sets your mind at ease, look up how many professional products, commercials, TV shows, News stations, feature films, theatrical trailers, etc. are and have been editing on Final Cut Pro. Final Cut Studio 2 also boasts "Color" - a professional color grading app that previously cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact, FCS actually has, without question, the most robust color correction/grading tools out of the box than any of these suites.
 
Yeah, gotta agree w/filmguy123. You are seeing the limitation of the user, not the product.

filmguy123 said:
Final Cut Studio 2 also boasts "Color" - a professional color grading app that previously cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. In fact, FCS actually has, without question, the most robust color correction/grading tools out of the box than any of these suites.
Click to expand...
Color, when it was called Final Touch, was $25k. But from $25k to "free" is still a really good discount.


-A
 
Abinc said:
Hey guys,
I have a DVX100B and I definitely need a new editing suite to accompany it, and I've been thinking about going along the lines of Final Cut Studio. The only thing is, I want to get the absolute best quality I can out of my camera in terms of an editing package, and I'm not totally convinced FCP is the best way to go yet. :(

How come so many of the amazing, high-quality videos I've seen in the "screen grabs" section of the DVX thread seem to be edited with Premiere Pro? I've heard people say that no one can tell which editing software you use when you present your final product, but I'm finding it extremely easy to tell which program is used when people post their videos. It seems like all the beautifully color-corrected, higher-quality uploads have been edited on PPro/AE (or Vegas even), and a lot of the lower-quality, grainy ones I've seen have been edited on FCP.... :(

And this is after watching 100s of shorts for the months I've been on here. Why is this? Does it have something to do with FCP's take on SD? Maybe I've just been unlucky enough to not come across any of the beautifully edited FCP videos? Please enlighten me, because I really want to make a switch to Apple, (I'm so tired of Windows)!
:violin:
Click to expand...

I think it's because Premiere can edit directly from MXF files from the HVX200, so it's the preferred program for editing from that camera, which produces clean HD imagery. In FCP the MXF files have to be re-wrapped into quicktime which is an extra step.
 
Batutta, that has nothing to do with the quality or color correction. Rewrapping a file does nothing to the quality (it is not recompressing). The HD imagery is just as clean. Premiere is not THE preferred NLE for editing with the HVX200, other programs also support direct MXF file editing.

In fact, FCP is used MUCH more widely with P2 and MXF formats than Premiere is - by a long shot. That said, FCP really should have direct MXF file support.
 
filmguy123 said:
Batutta, that has nothing to do with the quality or color correction. Rewrapping a file does nothing to the quality (it is not recompressing). The HD imagery is just as clean. Premiere is not THE preferred NLE for editing with the HVX200, other programs also support direct MXF file editing.

In fact, FCP is used MUCH more widely with P2 and MXF formats than Premiere is - by a long shot. That said, FCP really should have direct MXF file support.
Click to expand...

I know it does nothing...I was just trying to explain why he's seeing higher quality productions ON THIS SITE, that use premiere. My guess was that the higher quality stuff is shot on HD, and since this is DVXUSER, most people here are HVX users, and are using Premiere because of the better integration.
 
Shane Ross said:
FCP does...with the use of RAYLIGHT.
Click to expand...

Yup! And probably will on the next version as well.

To be honest, their log and transfer really doesn't bother me. Takes only slightly longer than copying the plain MXF files off the camera anyway. THe only thing it doesn't allow for is editing directly off the P2 card, which I've never had the need to.
 
Batutta said:
I know it does nothing...I was just trying to explain why he's seeing higher quality productions ON THIS SITE, that use premiere. My guess was that the higher quality stuff is shot on HD, and since this is DVXUSER, most people here are HVX users, and are using Premiere because of the better integration.
Click to expand...
Oh I see what you're saying. The thing is, the stuff I've been watching is definitely SD (directly from the DVX "footage" forum).

Thanks for the responses so far! This is just something I've observed and it has really been bugging me a lot. Could anyone here toss in some links to any impressive SD (not HD) footage edited with FCP that they've seen before?
 
Abinc said:
Oh I see what you're saying. The thing is, the stuff I've been watching is definitely SD (directly from the DVX "footage" forum).

Thanks for the responses so far! This is just something I've observed and it has really been bugging me a lot. Could anyone here toss in some links to any impressive SD (not HD) footage edited with FCP that they've seen before?
Click to expand...

That's what I was saying about checking the list of feature films and TV shows that use FCP. That is your sample work that is impressive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Cut_Pro#Selected_Films_Edited_with_Final_Cut_Pro

300, No Country for Old men, Sky Captain & The World of Tomorrow, Jarhead, etc. etc. --- it's all about the talent of the people USING the tool... FCP is *more* than capable.

Also, here is a link to a piece I did in Final Cut Pro last year, in SD (not HD), filmed on the HVX. It was the first thing I ever edited in Final Cut Pro, and it's not really a stunning example of lighting or color correction or anything, but I did it 100% in FCP 6:

www.dscfiles.com/johnwoo.mov
 
Last edited:
adkimery said:
If you are concerned about the quality of editing what does it matter if the footage is HD or SD?

-A
Click to expand...
Because I'm planning on editing SD (therefore I'll never be using FCP's HD capabilities), which is why I'm interested in seeing what you might call a "well done" DVX (or SD) FCP project (just to prove my assumptions wrong). :undecided
 
Last edited:
there is no quality difference between premiere and FCP... editing the same way will give you the exact same result. any "problems" you may see is in a FCP based project is just a mistake by the editors and had nothing to do with FCP itself.

watch "Scrubs" on NBC and you'll see a good SD FCP project...
 
Abinc said:
Because I'm planning on editing SD (therefore I'll never be using FCP's HD capabilities), which is why I'm interested in seeing what you might call a "well done" DVX (or SD) FCP project (just to prove my assumptions wrong). :undecided
Click to expand...
Murderball was cut using FCP.
Biscardi Creative is an award winning boutique shop in Atlanta that cuts for b'cast using the FCS suite.
Trailer Park is a commercial/trailer house in LA that uses Final Cut Pro.
Shane Ross uses both Avid and FCP. I'm not sure which was used when, but maybe you can pick it out.

IMO you are worrying too much about the tools and not enough about how you are going to use them. There is nothing about Avid, FCS2, or CS3 that will make you a better editor. It's all about how well you can use the tools, not the tools themselves. Each app has it's pros and cons though so if you have specific needs one might be better than the other for you. For example, if you have an eye for color correction and grading and you can wrap you head around Apple Color then going w/FCS2 could be a big plus. But if you use lots of motion gfx, and effects and such then the very good integration CS3 could be a plus. Or if you are going to be using and offline/online work flow then Avid has a leg up there due to it's solid media management.


-A
 
Hey, here's something to consider. You can use Premiere (CS3 suite) on either a mac or a PC. In fact, you can get a special volume license that gives you the suite on both platforms for one price. You could use it now on your current PC hardware and still switch to mac at a later date and have it waiting for you over there at no extra cost, except for the DVDs. And you could still add FCS if you wanted to at that time, I suppose. May alleviate some of the angst of decision-making.
 
adkimery said:
IMO you are worrying too much about the tools and not enough about how you are going to use them. There is nothing about Avid, FCS2, or CS3 that will make you a better editor. It's all about how well you can use the tools, not the tools themselves. Each app has it's pros and cons though so if you have specific needs one might be better than the other for you. For example, if you have an eye for color correction and grading and you can wrap you head around Apple Color then going w/FCS2 could be a big plus. But if you use lots of motion gfx, and effects and such then the very good integration CS3 could be a plus. Or if you are going to be using and offline/online work flow then Avid has a leg up there due to it's solid media management.
-A
Click to expand...
Thanks for that! I really appreciate your input, and I do find that CC is very important to me, so I guess I'll keep researching (it feels like that's all I've been doing ever since I got my DVX in November, haha!).

steffenmeister said:
Hey, here's something to consider. You can use Premiere (CS3 suite) on either a mac or a PC. In fact, you can get a special volume license that gives you the suite on both platforms for one price. You could use it now on your current PC hardware and still switch to mac at a later date and have it waiting for you over there at no extra cost, except for the DVDs. And you could still add FCS if you wanted to at that time, I suppose. May alleviate some of the angst of decision-making.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is something I've been considering. Yet I don't think my current laptop is sufficient enough to run CS3, plus I've been having issues connecting my camcorder to it (grr...). But this is something I'm considering as well! We'll see I guess.

If anyone else has something to add then go ahead! :2vrolijk_08:
 
The only thing I will add, after reading your posts, is this:

IT DOESN'T MATTER! GO with the platform or software package you prefer. They are both great, and each have strengths weaknesses. Neither of them will make footage look better or offer better CCing capabilities, it is just the tools you prefer. Since you don't know what you prefer, and you have much to learn, either way is going to be WAY over your head, and the odds are you will NEVER EVER reach the full potential of the software. Until you produce something more impressive than the feature films listed, what are you worried about on "which one has better CCing"

Have you ever even CCed before? Seriously, you are worried about something that isn't warranted at all (both are extremely capable) and two you are worried about something WAY over your experience level. It's really a moot point. You said "I really want to go Apple."

Then go Apple and get FCP! If your products aren't up to par, Premiere or FCP won't be the reason, the reason will be you. I've never even heard of someone wondering if FCP is "good enough" or will produce the right results. It is one of the, and becomign THE, industry standard! For professional broadcast and feature film work. And you're worried about if it will handle your $3000k DVX footage satisfactorily??


Not trying to sound harsh at all, just trying to set you at ease. You are worried about something there is no reason to worry about. It's been said many times, and I'll say it again:

There is no correlation between quality of work and NLE used. I've worked on Premiere, FCP, Ulead, etc. When I used to work on this crappy editor people would love my editing and say "WHAT DID YOU USE TO EDIT IT ON??" and I'd tell them "Ulead." The point is, it's not the software, it's the user. If you happen to see better work done on ULEAD than Premiere, or FCP than Avid, or Vegas than FCP, it has nothing to do with the software, and if there SEEMS to be a trend it is a MIRAGE and only coincedantal, and you are polling from an extremely limited pool where other issues are at play like has been mentioned.
 
yeah, asking which nle will produce better edits is like asking, "which microphone will make me a better singer?". fcp, avid, premiere, etc. are just tools. all get the job done in similar ways. pick one.
 
Thanks for the responses again! I feel like my concern has been answered; I was only wondering why (from my observation) I've seen better projects on here done with Premiere rather than FCP. And the answer I've gotten is that "it's the editor, not the software", and I'm totally satisfied with that! (thanks for your input filmguy; you make perfect sense!).

I always thought it was smart to ask questions when you're thinking about making a purchase over $3k, so I just want to feel good about spending the money I work for.

Thanks again!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top