Heres my rant for the night. Every time I watch TV I see shows interviewing popular working actors and its ALWAYS just about them. "When we were shooting the film WE wanted it to come out like this and I had to do this"..blah blah blah. Never do you hear even mention of the crew or DP or director (only if the director is very famous). WTF? Let me say first that I am a longtime student of probably the best acting theatre/schools in Hollywood. Alot of big time talent has come from my theatre company and I consider myself a very good actor and hopefully a good director too. I have learned that writing and directing is very very hard to get professional results and im sick of it always being about the people in front of the camera...what are all of your thoughts?
These selfish actors...
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Mike_Donis
Veteran
Re: These selfish actors...
I know exactly what you mean, but I don't think it's neccesarily a bad thing. Perhaps these actors actually did have a vision? Also, you can't expect them to talk about what they don't understand, the same way that to the average person, "good cinematography" goes right over their head, they don't notice it at all. Same with actors I guess...
I know exactly what you mean, but I don't think it's neccesarily a bad thing. Perhaps these actors actually did have a vision? Also, you can't expect them to talk about what they don't understand, the same way that to the average person, "good cinematography" goes right over their head, they don't notice it at all. Same with actors I guess...
Re: These selfish actors...
My experience has been that actors have some of the largest egos of any group of people. However--the profession demands it. Actors face constant rejection and need a ton of confidence in front of an audience or the camera. They have to believe they're great to survive. Once they become well-known, they're usually surrounded by sycophants that reinforce the notion that they're great--no matter what they do.
My experience has been that actors have some of the largest egos of any group of people. However--the profession demands it. Actors face constant rejection and need a ton of confidence in front of an audience or the camera. They have to believe they're great to survive. Once they become well-known, they're usually surrounded by sycophants that reinforce the notion that they're great--no matter what they do.
Collink
Well-known member
Re: These selfish actors...
;D I'd rather it be that way! Let 'em soak in the sunshine! I got into this business because I liked being behind the scenes. I think that if I walked out of a building and there were 30 camera crews lined up to interview me for crap entertainment TV shows about the movies I crank out, and they all came rushing up with their cameras and mics in my face I'd probably start having a seizure, shaking and drooling all over myself, muttering incoherently. They'd have a story alright, "NEW UP-AND-COMING DIRECTOR WETS HIMSELF ON RED CARPET - STAINS REMOVED WITH OXYCLEAN (our sponsor)"
No thanks, Let my actors go out there, they look better than me anyway.
;D I'd rather it be that way! Let 'em soak in the sunshine! I got into this business because I liked being behind the scenes. I think that if I walked out of a building and there were 30 camera crews lined up to interview me for crap entertainment TV shows about the movies I crank out, and they all came rushing up with their cameras and mics in my face I'd probably start having a seizure, shaking and drooling all over myself, muttering incoherently. They'd have a story alright, "NEW UP-AND-COMING DIRECTOR WETS HIMSELF ON RED CARPET - STAINS REMOVED WITH OXYCLEAN (our sponsor)"
No thanks, Let my actors go out there, they look better than me anyway.
nullphonic
Well-known member
Re: These selfish actors...
[quote author=Collink link=board=Offtopic;num=1093667060;start=0#5 date=08/30/04 at 05:22:30] "NEW UP-AND-COMING DIRECTOR WETS HIMSELF ON RED CARPET - STAINS REMOVED WITH OXYCLEAN (our sponsor)"[/quote]
LOL ;D
[quote author=Collink link=board=Offtopic;num=1093667060;start=0#5 date=08/30/04 at 05:22:30] "NEW UP-AND-COMING DIRECTOR WETS HIMSELF ON RED CARPET - STAINS REMOVED WITH OXYCLEAN (our sponsor)"[/quote]
LOL ;D
Re: These selfish actors...
..i agree. Id rather stay behind the scenes.. not cause i look bad, but cause i dont want to deal with all that schlock. ..sure it would be nice to get some recognition for all the hard work that you do, but Id really only care if it was people i was really meeting.. not just random faceless zombie like entertainment worshipers off the street. sides, if you want to be a recoginzed, and touted after director.. you can always stick your face, and name on everything really big .. and include yourself in all the special features on the DVDs you release.
..i agree. Id rather stay behind the scenes.. not cause i look bad, but cause i dont want to deal with all that schlock. ..sure it would be nice to get some recognition for all the hard work that you do, but Id really only care if it was people i was really meeting.. not just random faceless zombie like entertainment worshipers off the street. sides, if you want to be a recoginzed, and touted after director.. you can always stick your face, and name on everything really big .. and include yourself in all the special features on the DVDs you release.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: These selfish actors...
Also, if you got Ben AFFLACK on your television program, would you ask him questions about the Assistant Director on Jersey Girl?
No, because there is no one in the entire world that cares.
The average actor probably doesn’t even know the AD’s last name. Maybe they know the second, but that’s only if they’re paying attention. I wouldn’t say that’s because they’re self-absorbed, it’s because they’re only on set when they need to be and they only end up interacting with certain people when they need to. Grips, AD’s, editors, electricians, props, they’re all superfluous to their job, so there’s no need for them to get involved.
Actors talk about themselves because that's what people ask them to do usually. Sure it sounds nice for an actor to give props to some cinematographer, but that's really just an aside while we wait for them to talk about their hairstylist or their outfit. As a general rule, people don't even care about their acting craft. We just humor them with questions about how it is to play some role so we can move on to the next question about kissing that hot up-and-coming star.
It's a ridiculous business and you'll pop an aneurysm if you bother to try and suss it out.
Also, if you got Ben AFFLACK on your television program, would you ask him questions about the Assistant Director on Jersey Girl?
No, because there is no one in the entire world that cares.
The average actor probably doesn’t even know the AD’s last name. Maybe they know the second, but that’s only if they’re paying attention. I wouldn’t say that’s because they’re self-absorbed, it’s because they’re only on set when they need to be and they only end up interacting with certain people when they need to. Grips, AD’s, editors, electricians, props, they’re all superfluous to their job, so there’s no need for them to get involved.
Actors talk about themselves because that's what people ask them to do usually. Sure it sounds nice for an actor to give props to some cinematographer, but that's really just an aside while we wait for them to talk about their hairstylist or their outfit. As a general rule, people don't even care about their acting craft. We just humor them with questions about how it is to play some role so we can move on to the next question about kissing that hot up-and-coming star.
It's a ridiculous business and you'll pop an aneurysm if you bother to try and suss it out.
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: These selfish actors...
Anyone with in-depth knowledge of a SAG experimental contract is aware that actors aren't getting screwed under its protections.
Also I understand your empathy towards actors, but if you review every post in this thread, no one really knocked actors or the acting profession.
Actors aren’t even a necessary evil, they’re just plain necessary.
Anyone with in-depth knowledge of a SAG experimental contract is aware that actors aren't getting screwed under its protections.
Also I understand your empathy towards actors, but if you review every post in this thread, no one really knocked actors or the acting profession.
Actors aren’t even a necessary evil, they’re just plain necessary.
Re: These selfish actors...
[quote author=liquidigital link=board=Offtopic;num=1093667060;start=0#10 date=08/31/04 at 22:28:54]I think it's interesting that everyone has opinions about actors but they probably haven't been hired in a professional venue as an actor themselves. What about going to countless auditions, being humiliated for your art, and dealing with the fickle public scrutiny? Maybe they have to harden themselves to protect themselves from the sheer amount of critics that complain about how THEY don't get the recognition. The fact is, a talented actor can bring in the resources to start an entire production. But everyone wants them to work on their project, for free. So let's screw them with a SAG Experimental since they're desperate to do their art. It's bullshit. Sure a lot of actors have egos, but so do a lot of crew or anyone else in any industry for that matter. So why pick on actors? Because it's easy. Because they have the sack to put their reps on the line, in public, because if a movie sucks, no one is going to blame the A.D. or the DP for that matter. They will blame the director, sure. And maybe the writer, but certainly the actor. P.S. The honest to God's truth is, I failed at acting and probably a lot of people in this forum did too. They just PREFER to be behind the camera. Just my take. -MIKE[/quote]
Im a working actor now and I disagree. Sure you work your ass off to get one part but the same thing holds true for directors. And the only time I have ever been humiliated to get work is on "commercials"....uuuhhhhhhh, dont even remind me!
[quote author=liquidigital link=board=Offtopic;num=1093667060;start=0#10 date=08/31/04 at 22:28:54]I think it's interesting that everyone has opinions about actors but they probably haven't been hired in a professional venue as an actor themselves. What about going to countless auditions, being humiliated for your art, and dealing with the fickle public scrutiny? Maybe they have to harden themselves to protect themselves from the sheer amount of critics that complain about how THEY don't get the recognition. The fact is, a talented actor can bring in the resources to start an entire production. But everyone wants them to work on their project, for free. So let's screw them with a SAG Experimental since they're desperate to do their art. It's bullshit. Sure a lot of actors have egos, but so do a lot of crew or anyone else in any industry for that matter. So why pick on actors? Because it's easy. Because they have the sack to put their reps on the line, in public, because if a movie sucks, no one is going to blame the A.D. or the DP for that matter. They will blame the director, sure. And maybe the writer, but certainly the actor. P.S. The honest to God's truth is, I failed at acting and probably a lot of people in this forum did too. They just PREFER to be behind the camera. Just my take. -MIKE[/quote]
Im a working actor now and I disagree. Sure you work your ass off to get one part but the same thing holds true for directors. And the only time I have ever been humiliated to get work is on "commercials"....uuuhhhhhhh, dont even remind me!
liquidigital
Active member
Re: These selfish actors...
J Barnes, actors get screwed everyday with this contract and never see their money, as in the case of a producer distributing something into a foreign market w/out SAG's consent. I'm in SAG and I have firsthand experience with this. I even read in a "how to make a movie book" a chapter on how not to pay your actors. Next, they aren't going to want to pay stunt people. And if you don't think actors get humiliated, have you ever had to show your tits in an audition as a director? Give me a break. They put themselves, as well as the product, on the line. There is an anonymity as a crew member, but as a legitimate working actor ( and I'm refering to or SAG/ AFTRA roles through the casting process, not a mindv movie) your face is attached to everything you do and you are subject to the quality of the production. So when they make it, and bring in millions for studios, and provide others with work, you're telling me that they don't deserve recognition? I'm not knocking the other professions. I think cinematography is fascinating, all the way to film loaders and lab work with emulsions and everything. The process is amazing. But whereas the light of the film serves the story, the public won't go see a movie because Conrad Hall(whose work I admire greatly) isn't going to put asses in the seats. Tom Hanks will though. By the way J Barnes, the title of this thread and the post was "These selfish actors..." that is why I wrote this. Best- Mike
J Barnes, actors get screwed everyday with this contract and never see their money, as in the case of a producer distributing something into a foreign market w/out SAG's consent. I'm in SAG and I have firsthand experience with this. I even read in a "how to make a movie book" a chapter on how not to pay your actors. Next, they aren't going to want to pay stunt people. And if you don't think actors get humiliated, have you ever had to show your tits in an audition as a director? Give me a break. They put themselves, as well as the product, on the line. There is an anonymity as a crew member, but as a legitimate working actor ( and I'm refering to or SAG/ AFTRA roles through the casting process, not a mindv movie) your face is attached to everything you do and you are subject to the quality of the production. So when they make it, and bring in millions for studios, and provide others with work, you're telling me that they don't deserve recognition? I'm not knocking the other professions. I think cinematography is fascinating, all the way to film loaders and lab work with emulsions and everything. The process is amazing. But whereas the light of the film serves the story, the public won't go see a movie because Conrad Hall(whose work I admire greatly) isn't going to put asses in the seats. Tom Hanks will though. By the way J Barnes, the title of this thread and the post was "These selfish actors..." that is why I wrote this. Best- Mike
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: These selfish actors...
Respectfully, your experience getting screwed with someone distributing a film in a foreign market against SAG’s consent is rare and unusual. As you say yourself, this happened against SAG’s consent, and it sounds to me to be an issue the union would remedy if they had the means.
(Does this foreign market happen to be Israel by any chance? They have no international treaties regarding copyright laws.)
Anyone who has direct experience with the SAG experimental contract on the producing side (as I do), knows that heavily favors the actors. The SAG experimental contract, in effect, gives the SAG actor “first dollar” rights to any and all proceeds from a film project. This means that legally, all prize money won at festivals must go first to pay back the SAG actor’s day rate before any other investors, crew or non-union actors are paid. Following the recoup of the day rate, the actor is then due royalties over top of all other actor and crew salaries.
The SAG experimental contract makes it nearly impossible to repay investors without a lucrative distribution deal, so I hardly think that it can be said that SAG Experimental contract actors are getting screwed.
Also, while you point out that the thread is titled “those selfish actors”, it seems clear to me that the majority of all posts in this thread are either in support of those selfish actors or are in jest at the whole subject.
No one in this thread said anything that disagreeing with the things you say about actors in your post, in fact a couple of people have already suggested opinions similar to yours about actors putting themselves out there. Even my post, which was a sad attempt at humor, was simply pointing out that actors receive the limelight because that’s where the public’s interest lies…it doesn’t lie in crewmembers, only in stars.
As someone who’s worked professionally in the training of actors, I can understand your exacerbation, but I think it’s completely misplaced in this case.
Respectfully, your experience getting screwed with someone distributing a film in a foreign market against SAG’s consent is rare and unusual. As you say yourself, this happened against SAG’s consent, and it sounds to me to be an issue the union would remedy if they had the means.
(Does this foreign market happen to be Israel by any chance? They have no international treaties regarding copyright laws.)
Anyone who has direct experience with the SAG experimental contract on the producing side (as I do), knows that heavily favors the actors. The SAG experimental contract, in effect, gives the SAG actor “first dollar” rights to any and all proceeds from a film project. This means that legally, all prize money won at festivals must go first to pay back the SAG actor’s day rate before any other investors, crew or non-union actors are paid. Following the recoup of the day rate, the actor is then due royalties over top of all other actor and crew salaries.
The SAG experimental contract makes it nearly impossible to repay investors without a lucrative distribution deal, so I hardly think that it can be said that SAG Experimental contract actors are getting screwed.
Also, while you point out that the thread is titled “those selfish actors”, it seems clear to me that the majority of all posts in this thread are either in support of those selfish actors or are in jest at the whole subject.
No one in this thread said anything that disagreeing with the things you say about actors in your post, in fact a couple of people have already suggested opinions similar to yours about actors putting themselves out there. Even my post, which was a sad attempt at humor, was simply pointing out that actors receive the limelight because that’s where the public’s interest lies…it doesn’t lie in crewmembers, only in stars.
As someone who’s worked professionally in the training of actors, I can understand your exacerbation, but I think it’s completely misplaced in this case.
liquidigital
Active member
Re: These selfish actors...
J Barnes...Not to go off on a tangent about the contracts (because SAG is a great union in many respects) there are instances during a SAG Experimental movie such as overtime, insufficient meals, no turnaround, insufficient dressing rooms even, that are never reported to SAG and I think a lot of it is because an actor working in this venue may be intimidated into believing they'll never work again if they mess up. I'm encouraged to hear that you are working on productions that don't cater to this behavior, but to the stipulations set forth in the contract. The first post in this started out as "Here's my rant for the night." And it's about actors deserving recognition. It ended with "what are all of your thoughts?" Respectfully, these are my thoughts. But you raise some valid points and I apologize if I sound exacerbated. Best- Mike
J Barnes...Not to go off on a tangent about the contracts (because SAG is a great union in many respects) there are instances during a SAG Experimental movie such as overtime, insufficient meals, no turnaround, insufficient dressing rooms even, that are never reported to SAG and I think a lot of it is because an actor working in this venue may be intimidated into believing they'll never work again if they mess up. I'm encouraged to hear that you are working on productions that don't cater to this behavior, but to the stipulations set forth in the contract. The first post in this started out as "Here's my rant for the night." And it's about actors deserving recognition. It ended with "what are all of your thoughts?" Respectfully, these are my thoughts. But you raise some valid points and I apologize if I sound exacerbated. Best- Mike
J_Barnes
Veteran
Re: These selfish actors...
You're right about unscrupulous producers, but ignorance on the part of the actor is often to blame for the mistreatment of actors. Sag does a pretty good job offering assistance to both actors and producers interested in the fine details of their standard contracts, they walked me through every step of the contract explaining every thing detailed within the terms of the contract. It's in the actor's interest to understand their rights because it isn't likely that there will be a union AD on set looking out for them.
The fact that an actor has a SAG membership should entail that they've also got some knowledge of their rights under the terms of that membership. It's sad to think that any producer would try and strongarm an actor into working in conditions they shouldn't, but it's also laughable to think that anyone employing those tactics could have a lasting effect on an actor's career. (although some actors aren’t savvy enough to know this)
Also, an actor reading into the SAG experimental contract would clearly see that there are no expressed rights to dressing rooms or meals, but the producer is required to maintain accurate reporting of the actors time on the proper SAG timecards...which the actor must sign before they're submitted.
A lot of experimental films don't follow the sag contract to the letter, but they do so with the willing participation of the actor usually (we're all in this together, bro!). What the union actor doesn't understand is that SAG takes the experimental contract very seriously, and it requires actors to be as vigilant in its obligations as it does the producers who work under it.
I personally know of a couple of actors who have been called before a SAG review board for falsifying timesheets, working non-union, and willingly participating in the violation of union contracts. They can censure, fine, suspend, and admonish you…and in some extreme cases, they can terminate your union membership.
That contract violations happen at all means that it happens too much, but a union actor must understand that if there is no union AD on set, they are contractually required to demand that the rights given under their contract be honored.
Now, back to what jerks actors are…
You're right about unscrupulous producers, but ignorance on the part of the actor is often to blame for the mistreatment of actors. Sag does a pretty good job offering assistance to both actors and producers interested in the fine details of their standard contracts, they walked me through every step of the contract explaining every thing detailed within the terms of the contract. It's in the actor's interest to understand their rights because it isn't likely that there will be a union AD on set looking out for them.
The fact that an actor has a SAG membership should entail that they've also got some knowledge of their rights under the terms of that membership. It's sad to think that any producer would try and strongarm an actor into working in conditions they shouldn't, but it's also laughable to think that anyone employing those tactics could have a lasting effect on an actor's career. (although some actors aren’t savvy enough to know this)
Also, an actor reading into the SAG experimental contract would clearly see that there are no expressed rights to dressing rooms or meals, but the producer is required to maintain accurate reporting of the actors time on the proper SAG timecards...which the actor must sign before they're submitted.
A lot of experimental films don't follow the sag contract to the letter, but they do so with the willing participation of the actor usually (we're all in this together, bro!). What the union actor doesn't understand is that SAG takes the experimental contract very seriously, and it requires actors to be as vigilant in its obligations as it does the producers who work under it.
I personally know of a couple of actors who have been called before a SAG review board for falsifying timesheets, working non-union, and willingly participating in the violation of union contracts. They can censure, fine, suspend, and admonish you…and in some extreme cases, they can terminate your union membership.
That contract violations happen at all means that it happens too much, but a union actor must understand that if there is no union AD on set, they are contractually required to demand that the rights given under their contract be honored.
Now, back to what jerks actors are…
Nathyn
Low Budget Ninja
Re: These selfish actors...
Frankly I try not to deal with SAG. If I'm making a film I tell actors up front "I don't have money, you're payment is food and my gratitude. If I make a couple of thousand I might buy you something nice." Actors are more than happy to act there butt off for an honest director.
The actors in my film all worked for food and if by some miracle I make a million bucks I'll pay them pretty good but my actors are usually college people and theater people who want the notoriety and want to add a feature to their resume.
-Nate
Frankly I try not to deal with SAG. If I'm making a film I tell actors up front "I don't have money, you're payment is food and my gratitude. If I make a couple of thousand I might buy you something nice." Actors are more than happy to act there butt off for an honest director.
The actors in my film all worked for food and if by some miracle I make a million bucks I'll pay them pretty good but my actors are usually college people and theater people who want the notoriety and want to add a feature to their resume.
-Nate