The "Shakiness" of Film

Oh thanks a lot John. I thank those who are actually trying to help me. If I had the money I would buy that in a heart beat. I rather have that camera than a car...seriously. Some people don't just have that kind of money in this world John.
 
Hey--
John posts funny things like that *to* be helpful.. so please, don't chastise him.. For example,
if I wanted to do a "John Hudson" right now, I would ask him,
"Hey...huffa huffa huffa.. can I have a bone now?!?"
since I essentially just defended him in front of his peers and then he would chuckle and enjoy life.
John Hudson is one fine fellow.. roughdkf rufffs.. grrrroowwwllllll. hufff huffa schrwoooa

brian wells
 
dvfilm doesn't let you sample 24p on it's demo-... or does it now? maybe that's why you didn't see any difference. and you have to shoot 60i like they say.
I dont think TRVs have frame mode. they only shoot 60i and have different shutter settings.

DVX is a beautiful camera, im sure you know that. whatever investments you can make, its' worth placing on this cam if you want to preach the Word and make videos.

why dont you ask for help from family members, friends.... pay them back later.

in the meantime, practice lighting techniques, camera movement, and purchase dvfilm- it probably takes till dawn to render- but it's worth it.

g'luck
 
Okay, one other thing to try... Set your camera on autoshutter, stroll outside into some bright sunlight, turn auto shutter off. This should "fake" it into a higher shutter speed that you can't select in manual shutter mode--but it still won't look like 24Fps.

Feel to ask questions here anytime, but pleased don't be alarmed or upset that there will be certain things you can't do with that camera... There are a ton of things the DVX cannot do, but we all work with what we've got, you know? Hope this helps and best wishes in your ministry pursuits.

brian wells
 
Hey questionman, get a job. Then buy a dvx100a. It's not that hard. That's what I did.
 
If you want really shakiness movie - right click on video track in Vegas - properties - undersample rate...play with this number :beer:
 
Thanks guys!

Thanks guys!

Thanks for all your help. I'm gonna try sampling rate thing. John, it's ok man. I would get a job but I don't have the time for it. I am too involved with church and don't have the time. Although I am getting a lot of jobs to film weddings and birthday parties and sweet sixteen. That's gonna get me atleast $1000. But I don't know how I am going to pay the rest. Because interest kills you.

I got my picture to look really really good with the shutter thing. It looks amazing. so much better than what it did before.

DVFilm does show it on 24p. They say that everything is the same as the real one except they imprint the logo on the export clip.
 
I don't have the option to change the undersample rate. I don't have Vegas 5, i have Vegas Moviestudio 4.0 which is the consumer version. So, I can't do that. Any more suggestions?

Hey thisiswells, did you check out the movie yet?
 
thisiswells said:
What movie?
Click to expand...

Dude! The SWAT movie I've been talking about. The other dude is gonna check it out for me also. But you can if you're interested in knowing what effect I'm trying to achieve. The scene is after the cops break up their relationship in the locker room. When he is punching the punching bags on the beach is really noticeable. Thanks for your help!

P.S. I did some comparison tests with the shutter on and off, and the high shutter makes it look soooo much better. I am going to try to combine it my Flash effect.
 
Hey guys, I think I know how to better describe the look I want. It's like a strobe look. It sort of looks like when you are previewing your video on the computer and your computer is not too too fast so the video doesn't play very smoothily as it would render. It isn't like too noticeable but you can see it. Did you guys watch the scene yet?
 
The look of 24 frame acquisition is something video and HD manufacturers have been trying to crack with post-tools since the early 1990s. A lot of filmmakers tried and tried to tell them that resolution and response / latitude wasn't why their HD video didn't "look like film" - it was primarily frame rate. Yeah, yeah... latitude and contrast ratio play into it a bit, but it is primarily a 30 frame versus 24 frame thing.

Some really nutty guys actually decided at one point that film acquisition needed to occur at 30fps because it would be "more real and clear". Lots of laughs - how many ShowScan films have you seen in theaters? Uh... none! That's because we've become accustomed to 24 frame's inherent look of altered dramatic reality. Everything is slowed down a bit - lagging in our unconscious mind like the images on the big screen.

It took those geeky engineers fifteen years to migrate to 24 frame for narrative and dramatic content creation. Much better minds have put themselves and their models and algorithyms to mimicking the look of film.

The tool is here - right in front of you - to do 24 frame progressive acquisition. Get a DVX100a. If you are applying this much time to fix a compromise image in post, it is worth doing it in acquisition.

e
 
You've made it clear you can't afford a new one. Proceed with caution, but the original DVX100 (non a) sell on eBay for around 2K. If that's still impossible, consider renting one occasionally when you need to shoot some things for your church. Send your church the bill. They're $150-$200/Day depending on where you're at and if you get one for a week, you only pay for three days rental. It's a pretty good option.

What everyone here is saying is there is nothing that captures light the same way celluloid does at 24Fps with a 45 degree shutter angle... except film@24Fps@45degreeshutter. While it's possible to get pretty close to the look of reversal film@24Fps with a 1/250 second shutter, it still isn't exactly the same. This is of course one of things that creates many disenfranchised videofilmmakers: it doesn't look exactly like film. It comes pretty close when using the right tools, but still not exact.

So, you focus on the things you can without the exact look. Concentrate on lighting your shots well. Don't have lights? Then think about how you can control the available light for the best look. Flag your lens; aka make sure there is always a shadow on your lens otherwise you'll have flare, awful color and poor contrast. This is something you can change now if you already aren't in the habit of controlling flare. Temperal motion is only one small part of the "film look" and the good news is that most of the other parts don't require money--they just require knowing what to do. You clearly have a grasp on concept that your handycam doesn't have the same temperal motion rendering as a film camera. You know you could change that with a different camera. Ok. Good. Lesson One, learned. If you want to keep learning, then move on. You already know how to change one thing and you know how to do it. Sure, maybe you don't have the tool that allows you to do it, but YOU KNOW HOW. This is the most important thing. I think your best bet is to move on to something else that boggles your mind, like what is a shutter angle and why/how does it affect motion on a camera? Why is frame rate a big deal? Does it matter which shutter you use with which frame rate? Does shutter have any effect on how you set exposure? Does framerate have any effect on how you set exposure? What is 18% grey? What is a light meter? How do I use one? What is the difference between progressive scan and interlaced scan? Why should I care what the difference is between progressive scan and interlaced scan? Which one would I prefer if I were shooting for a TV reality show? Which one would I prefer if I were shooting a dramatic narrative? What is a "1K'? What is a fresnal? What is an HMI? What is tungsten vs. daylight and why does it matter on film? On video? What is white balance? What is color temperature? Does film have a "white balance" button? What is grip equipment? What is a flag, a cutter, a gobo, a scrim, a C47, a C stand, tuffspun, R119, an applebox, and why should I care about any of those things? Could I use any of them? Can I afford any of them? Can I make any of them? Do I already have some of them sitting around my house? Do you see what I'm getting at? You want to make films for church. That is great. You have a good eye and you see the difference between video and film. That's great, too. You know how to change it. Even better. Now, don't get frustrated and give up. That's super important. Keep reading books. Get an internship. Volunteer to help someone more experienced and do it for free to gain experience. Ask questions. You can do it, friend. IF a camera is the only thing you're worried about you know God can change that. So, don't worry about it and learn and teach yourself some other cool stuff in the time being. Okay?

brian wells
 
See the movie Tadpole. It was shot with a non-24p video camera. I bought a used copy at the local rental store last year for like six bucks. You can shoot a movie without 24p and this is a pretty good example of a pretty good looking movie without it. It's not all that clean, as kind of a warning so I wouldn't watch it with your parents unless they liked The Graduate when they were your age. Tadpole is kind of a modern day version of The Graduate. (techheads: It was Sony DigiBeta)
 
Hey Brian, thanks for your help. Those questions you gave was intense. I don't know hardly anything from that list. It's gonna be hard work to know it all. At the same time, I feel that if I research all that, I might waste my time because I might not even use it for my camera, or can I use it.

Did you see the scene on SWAT? If so, do you think the DVX100A can achieve that look (the stroby/shakiness look?)

Thanks once again for your help man. You've been with me the entire time. Really, the only reason why i am stressing this film look is not only because I love making films, it's because I want to be noticed and win something in a festival. Because I have talent that most kids my age don't. God has given me this talent, and He's been blessing me more and more for using it for His glory. Now, I don't know if I will be able to make this movie as good if it doesn't look like a movie. The shutter helps a lot, it does, but do you think that I can still win or be noticed with the camera I have? I mean, I'm gonna get this camera sooner or later, so I can always make another short film, but it's just that I am putting a lot of time towards this short film (45 min film) that I don't want it to be ruined by it not having the film look. Tell me what you think about it...

I am going to start answering all of those questions now and do some more research. Now you mentioned about progressive and interlaced. My Sony has an option to record in progressive (the manual says it's true progressive), although I can't use the progressive and shutter at the same time. The shutter makes it look better but you said progressive is important. Which one do you think I should use for the film look (i personally think the shutter looks better after tests). You're more experienced, you know what modes are more film like than others.

Thanks a lot for your list of questions. I will start working on them.
 
Inserting Images and Videos

Inserting Images and Videos

Hey, how do you insert an image onto the message boards? I don't know how. I want to show you guys some screen grabs from my tests so I can know what you think about my DOF and look. I want to show you what I got.

I click on the insert image icon but it just tells me to type something. Can you guys help me on this?

Do you guys know any website hosts that can let you import pretty big video files so that you guys can watch my stuff also so I can post on the message boards?
 
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