The route to becoming DP: Camera side or Grip?

M

musehead

Member
Hello,


I am young filmmaker who is trying to figure out the best route to becoming a DP.
Now I am aware that there is no such thing as one-route but I am trying to decide what department

should I start learning the craft from, from the Grip side or the Camera?

I want to join the local union here in Toronto but cannot figure out which dept to steer to.
Ive mainly have worked as 2nd AC so far but realized that I am not learning anything about lighting which slightly upsets me.

I am very interested in lighting, shaping, giving character and texture to it but I am still amateur. Now Ive recently have done couple of Grip shoots which I enjoyed more doing but am not sure I can physically handle doing the work for long periods of time, eg. weeks (I am 5'2 female, but strong).


What advice can anyone give me?

What are the cons and pros of working on either of the dep in the union?

Thank you in advance!
 
From my own personal experiences, there are benefits to both ways of approaching becoming a DP.

On the camera side you get to see the results a lot sooner. Being right their means you can see the subtle changes moving or shaping light can have. Of course you could be missing heaps of information in relation to what type of light, diffusion, gels, etc.

On the other side you have the practical knowledge of being told where to put things and what to use. Then once cameras are rolling you can sit back and learn to see with your eye what the light is doing. This can make you a faster and better cinematographer when it comes to lighting as you don't necessarily need the camera to light a scene. You can walk in and begin lighting before camera is set up and then tweak for camera once picture is up.

From my own personal experiences, I've found that the camera route is the quickest one to moving up into shooting. But I do enjoy getting my hands dirty from time to time and working in electrics department. I do paid work as a camera assistant and keep learn to light by eye when I do freebies as a member of G&E. I also find that most paid stuff is set in the commercial realm where working as a camera assistant has more benefit then lighting which is usually overly lit and flat. When I do more drama stuff, it pays to be in the G&E department as you can play more with the shadows and work more creatively.

But at the end of the day there is no set way on how to approach the profession. There are multiple ways of becoming a DP and coming up through either camera or G&E is but two paths you could take. I have met DP's that started as DP's, guys that went from editing to shooting and Directors who woke up one day and decided they like lighting more then directing. Everyone is different and we all make our own paths.

Best of luck and just keep on learning and expanding your knowledge. :)
 
There's also something to be said from the practical side about the fact that trying to brute force your way up by starting as a camera guy can be tough because without experience, it's hard to get hired on larger projects with real budgets, On the other hand as a grip/PA/etc. you may not be doing exactly what you want but you will get to work on better stuff to see how it's "really" done, and make professional rates doing it 'cause you'll (hopefully) be on budgeted projects.
 
I'm surprised that grip is considered a route to being a DP. Lots of 1st ACs become DP's but I've seen many more great DP's, start in the electric department.

Electric PA -> Best Boy Electric -> Gaffer -> DP.

Kegan
 
Going from union grip or electric to DP seems pretty rare in NY. I'm a bit new to this but the sense that I get from the people I've worked with on 52 jobs is that once you're in the union, you can move up within your category but you start making so much money that most are happy to keep doing it for years to come, or they don't enjoy it but they keep doing it anyway. There's not much of an incentive to switch to shooting.

I will say that if you do want to approach the job by first doing a totally different job that will teach you how to light, grip is probably not the way to go. A lot of what the grips do is essentially construction. They build rigs and give electrics points to hang lights from, they drive the lift up the block putting caps on the streetlights so that they stay on after the electrics fire up a 20k, they build platforms from wood or scaffolding to place the camera (and the technocrane that's holding it) on top of. A lot of that stuff is just as interesting to me but it's a whole different world from indie shows where both the grips and electrics work out of the same truck and are both intimately involved with lighting. Going for electric will likely teach you a bit more about lighting since you'll actually be working with lighting units.

I wouldn't worry too much about being physically cut out for the job of 3rd grip or electric. I know several individuals roughly matching the description you gave of yourself who seem to be doing fine. Being a hero and being able to move heavy things isn't necessarily looked up upon. There's always a cart laying around somewhere and if the best boy did their job booking the right amount of crew, you won't have too many tasks to complete at any given time.
 
I think the OP means 'grip' as in 'grip & electric'.

Personally I think it helps to have experience in both camera and electric, but I think working electrics give you more knowledge for working as a DoP than camera assisting does (though of course it's up to individual to make the most of watching others work).
 
If you are considering going the union route, and they are local to you, then I suggest making contact with the union and asking them their opinion about how to get a career going. I have very, very little dealings with the motion picture unions, but I have extensive union experience from a previous career. While a lot of people are intimidated by unions, and they get a lot of bad press, you have to remember that everyone who works for a union makes their money from member dues and they are all interested in new members. They have, or should have, a career development staff. Do your best to try and get information about that and see if you can take advantage of it. I mean, you have to be smart about that. So, do your homework and learn as much as you can about filmmaking on your own; so you can ask serious questions, be respectful, be enthusiastic, be likable (In other words, don't be an a**hole), and be available (Willing to do any job, at anytime and anywhere; without whining). I think that your goal at this point should, maybe, be developing a reputation as that "Smart, reliable, enthusiastic, hard working, kid that will do anything". If you can develop that, you will be exposed to people that you can learn from and who will be willing to help you. From that, learn all you can and develop your career.

As to the specific question, "Grip" side or "Camera" side?, Well... in the union/mainstream movie world most DPs come up through the camera side; paying their dues through loader, 2nd AC, 1st AC and operator positions. I believe that the advantage that mainstream camera department personnel had in their career development was the consistent close relationship with talented DPs. Through multiple projects mainstream camera department personnel had the opportunity to learn and develop up the latter. This pathway to a career has always been, and still is, limited to very few individuals. In my opinion, with the current state of the media production business, I think that a question of "Grip" side or "Camera" side is old fashion. Today I think that you need to get as much experience as you can in all of it. Keep doing as many AC gigs as you can, absolutely. Then you also should do as many gigs as you can working under the best Gaffer that you can find. Of the DPs unit, the Gaffer is the designer of the IMPLEMENTATION of the lighting. Find a talented Gaffer, let them know that you are a "Smart, reliable, enthusiastic, hard working, kid that will do anything", and ain't an a**hole, then work hard and learn all that you can. Lighting is the art and magic of cinematography. The best way to learn that is from a talented Gaffer. The rest is up to you.
 
I want to become a DOP. What I did was I joined IATSE 873 as an electric.
I will be working as an electric, then a Best Boy, then a Gaffer.

I think this is the better route than on the camera side because you learn a lot more about how to light, power, and more.
On the camera side, its basically operating and focus pulling. But, focus pulling isnt something critical to know as a DOP. Its more knowing the shots and lighting those shots.

I'm starting as an electric then moving up to a Gaffer. Itll be faster than from the camera side to rank up.
Once a Gaffer for a while, I will somehow make the switch to IATSE 667 to become a DOP.
Not sure how that will work out exactly, but thats my plan.
 
Thank-you so so much to everyone who took the time to give reply and give me feedback. I have a much better understanding now of what the difference is between the roles of a grip vs electric. I think I will take the route of an electric PA-electric-gaffer and work myself up through the gaffer's dept. and still do camera assist gigs for gaining more knowledge from the camera side.

David G.Smith- Ill take your advice on finding the best gaffer I can to work and try working for him. It sounds like a great piece of advice!
Ive heard that finding a DP to mentor for is somewhat uncommon and/or very difficult but to mentor for gaffer seems more .
probable.

Moseph- thank-you for the reassurance on the various body types/sizes that exist and all have the place in the grip & electric departments!

Once again, much appreciated to all the amazing and insightful feedback I received to my post.
 
I just don't know how you can make the switch from Gaffer to DOP.
These two role are the highest ranking for two different unions. 873 for electrics/best boys/gaffers and 667 for ac's/camera ops/dop's
 
Coming up the camera side you are going to be dealing composition, lens choice, DOF and visually telling the story through framing. Also film stock/Digital camera/codec and grading are things the gaffer will not be dealing with generally. I would focus on the camera side and pick the brains of the gaffers and grip/electric crew that you work with, perhaps even doing some projects almost like a "double major" to get a knowledge of the gear. If you aren't working on a union camera gig and can get on a non-union grip gig, do that too. DPs that you work for will respect that you are extending yourself. It's always satisfying to a mentor to have a pupil who is passionate about what they are doing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top