the real film look...

Re: the real film look...

There is one other thing you can do to fool the image into being softer. Depending on what you are shooting you can use either a Black Pro mist (BPM), or White Pro Mist (WPM). They come in various degrees from 1/8 - 3 (although 1 and up is a bit much for video) Although it softens the whole image, it would help the look that you seek.
 
Re: the real film look...

Barry,

Thanks for the link. I read it and have been trying it. But now I'm puzzled by some of you other posts. What I mean is that those suggestions you gave in that tutorial link REALLY WORK WELL. It seems to me the only real drawback is that it works best at full zoom, and sometimes indoors that's not too convenint. I'm puzzled that some of your comments in this thread suggest that you really "can't do" DOF or that there are huge compromises. Now maybe I'm putting too much on my little tests in the 3.5 inch flip out screen, but I had really good results.
 
Re: the real film look...

What I'm saying is, there's only so much that can be done when your lens is (at maximum) 45mm long.

I spelled out all the tips & tricks I could think of, but the limited field of view on a camera like the DVX is going to dictate using wide focal lengths, which will severly limit what you can do. If you're used to the DOF you can get with a 35mm still camera, you have to recognize that you will never, ever approach those same results (under the same circumstances) with a camera like the DVX. That's all.

But if you're getting results that are satisfactory to you, then that's excellent! Glad it helped.
 
Re: the real film look...

Well, yes and no. I've been "rack focusing" my family and inanimate objects, indoors and outdoors this afternoon until my battery ran down. I would like to qualify my initial excitement a bit by saying that inside the house, I had to REALLY work hard to get the effect because I had to get far back in order to use full zoom, which limited shooting angles dramatically. But here are some rough measurements. With the subject six feet from the background (wall and bathroom door) and me about 13 feet from the subject, full focal length, and f2.8 (indoors on a brightly lit day, but not too lit hall), I had a nicely blurred out background. At another point, I had two of my sons standing a mere 4 feet away and could get a good rack focus effect. But he key is that there was only one place I could stand to do that particular shot, due to the distance issue.

So if you're suggesting that you "can't" get the kind of DOF flexibility out of the DVX (compared to a 35mm still camera), I'd agree wholeheartedly. From my goofing around this afternoon, I discovered I'd need to plan a composition around an intended DOF effect, and not expect to be able to work a DOF effect into any given scene. (I think SoftScreen is soon to be on my wish list).

But my excitement is that it CAN be done to nice effect, even if the opportunities are rather limited. Before I tried this today, I was expecting a flat, everything in focus look. I may have misread some of these posts, but I got the impression that the prospects for getting a narrow DOF look from the DVX100 was pretty dismal. But following your suggestions, I've discovered that it is possible, if all the factors line up.

Thanks very much for the suggestions.
 
Re: the real film look...

Yes, it is possible, but you have to manipulate the circumstances to get the best effect. The #1 & #2 things to manipulate is to try to get the longest zoom possible, and to get the background as far away as possible. If that means "cheating" on the setup, then cheat on the setup. We cheat on shots all the time. Move the table and chairs away from the wall, etc... manipulate it until you get the shot you want. After all, you're already doing that with lighting, might as well do it with staging, positioning, and framing too, right?
 
Re: the real film look...

I've posted some frame grabs illustrating what I did tonight with my DVX100A, playing with the DOF.

http://www.zoomforce.com/cgi-bin/dvxuser/more.cgi?231

Upper two shots were taken with the Zoom at 85, F4.0. The front of the camera was exactly 4 feet from the water bottle, and the front of the water bottle was exactly three feet in front of the face side of the spice bottle. This was brightly lit. Our kitchen overhead light has five 100 watt bulbs.
The bottom two shots were my bored son reading. His face was exactly four feet from the closet door nob. In the first shot, I was 6 1/2 feet from him with the Zoom at 75. The second shot I'm at 9 feet with the Zoom at 85. The F was 2.8 on both. This was a less well lit situation. His bedroom has an overhead lamp with four 40 watt bulbs, and there was a 40 watt lamp to the left of the picture on a night stand.

The bottles seem to show the DOF effect better, presumably because it was more well lit. Also, my son's face requires a bigger frame than a small bottle, which caused me to move back.

By the way, I was able to achieve very good focus with the lens about 3 inches from an object.
 
Re: the real film look...

After reading this thread I reconsidered Citizen Kane. Visionary lighting, shot composition and camera movement were what made that film look great. Also helps to have an incredible screenplay and fabulous actors.

I have come to the conclusion that with my DVX100, shallow DOF shots should only be planned for and used when absolutely necessary for a project, and the limitations of the equipment must be taken into consideration. Shooting @ nearly full telephoto with the aperture wide open and keeping the background very far away from the subject must be accounted for. Or judged whether it is actually worth the bother.

Smooth dolly/truck shots and well-thought-out framing is probably far more important to the "film look," as is color rendering and well-conceived lighting schemes. Being able to rack focus a shot that's otherwise a washed out piece of visual garbage is no savior to any project.

IMHO, FWIW.
 
Re: the real film look...

I've been watching "Monster's Ball" quite a lot recently, specifically studying the DP's work. For me, the work in that movie is exquisitely simple; the cinematography never gets in the way of telling the story.

It was a real eye opener (literally and figuratively) for me, and is causing me to rethink how I'm planning to shoot future projects. I have a dolly and a jib and a "steadycam" ... and I will use them, albeit in a simpler fashion.

$0.02 from an actor and aspiring director in Texas.
 
Re: the real film look...

Hey Parasite,

Liked the "trailer." The dolly shots look natural and convincing, and the acting is believable. Most importantly, the subject matter seems compelling. If the rest of the project follows in this vein, it will certainly be worth watching.

What is the intended running time of the project? Full feature-length, or something shorter? What is your inended medium and audience?
 
Re: the real film look...

Parasite,

I saw the stills and like it !

Did you use the Panasonic anamorphic lense and the cropped it in post, or did you use the anamorphic lense and use "in camera" letterbox to achieve the 2:35 aspect ratio ?

Usually, with the anamorphic lense, it is hard to open the iris wider than 5.6 (thus increasing the DOF) with closeups (max 90 zoom).
 
Re: the real film look...

Umm there is one other method of getting shallower depth of field on the DVX. getting close enough to get into the macro range of the lens decreases the DoF considerably. Once again there are limitations as to when you can use this but it does work.
 
Re: the real film look...

oh Parisite
just looked at the trailer. Great! it looks fantastic. The lighting really matches the mood and the acting is really... well... real. Hopefully it gets released over here.
 
Re: the real film look...

so would it be safe to say that realisticly that with the dvx 100a all i have is a glroified camcorder.
 
Re: the real film look...

[quote author=foreigntongues link=board=news;num=1084912461;start=45#54 date=06/16/04 at 14:39:09]so would it be safe to say that realisticly that with the dvx 100a all i have is a glroified camcorder. [/quote]

Are you serious? What else did you think it *was*?

"All" you have a camcorder which can do things that no other camcorder in its class can do. "Glorified"? Sure, but worthy of the glory.
 
Re: the real film look...

..the sony cine-alta 950 HD cinema camera and panasonic HD Varicam are glorified camcorders too. i dont even get what you were getting at with that question..
 
Re: the real film look...

I think what i'm going to do tonight is take apart my old sony 8mm camcorder and see if it is possible to mount a 35mm slr lens on to it. If it works and it is not to difficult then why not do it to a dvx. Just imagine the images possible, and all the lens choices. I know the image may be inverted, but the little sony has been on the shelf for years anyway. Now thats shallow DOF. Its this kind of thing that gave me my nickname "MAD DOUG".
 
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