The moment you become a director

That blew me out of the water
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After taking a look at this again and I do agree with the sentiment in part but I have to say that sometimes I think that aspirants really take ideas like this too far at times.

Sometimes they're extremely resistant to ideas and tips from people around them who are supporting the film being made and they think they're being "artists" by doing so rather than just being a pain. Now, the difference in this group, is that they're all proven 'artists' (I'll say somewhat in the case of Lee Daniels because I don't really dig his vibe based on articles etc.) whereas you could put 5 more folks on a discussion like this who have no business taking a stand like some of these folks have because they don't actually have 'vision' just an opinion.

So, definitely an intriguing thought process of when you 'become' a director but I do find the mentality can be dangerous in the wrong inexperienced hands...I've seen it a lot and folks like that end up wasting a lot of people's time and efforts by being hard-headed in the name of 'art'.

-M
 
Martay, I get you're point, but when those guys made their stands they weren't proven talents. They were walking, talking financial risks with ideas that other people didn't like.

The only way to tell the difference between them and a hard headed hack is letting them work and judging the final product. I think Tarantino even mentioned that. He didn't want to be mediocre. He was either going to become "Tarantino" as we now know him, or a worthless hack.

What if Lucas listened to everyone that said Star Wars would be terrible? What if Coppola had cast Ernest Borgnine and Robert Redford instead of Marlon Brando and Al Pacino in "The Godfather" like Paramount wanted?

Obviously this line of though has also ruined a lot of movies, but it's also giving us some of the best movies in history.
 
Martay said:
I do find the mentality can be dangerous in the wrong inexperienced hands...I've seen it a lot and folks like that end up wasting a lot of people's time and efforts by being hard-headed in the name of 'art'.

-M
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Yes. "Overnight", the doc about the maniac who made "Boondock Saints" illustrates this perfectly. There's a huge difference between a real artist taking a stand and a hack who thinks he's a genius doing so. And unfortunately, there are far too many times as many of the latter as the former...
 
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Gohanto said:
Martay, I get you're point, but when those guys made their stands they weren't proven talents.
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Right, but they were the incredibly able people they were/are and their (then-future) work stands as its own proof. I don't know much about the others on the panel, but certainly Tarantino and Cameron are without any doubt in my own mind two of the most competent, disciplined and gifted directors working today. I'd bet large that the extraordinarily high standards they held themselves to even at that early stage was all the ammunition they needed to keep in mind in a battle to stand up for themselves. Guys with artistic standards like that don't just fall off the turnip truck. They *create themselves*, then they create their art. Artists of that exceedingly rare caliber almost always succeed. The world hungers for their work...

Boneheaded hacks like "Boondock Saints" director Troy Duffy never had that and unless I'm actually the moron here, never will.
 
Obviously this line of though has also ruined a lot of movies, but it's also giving us some of the best movies in history.
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Like going for 4th down in the NFL.

When it works, the coach is a genius, when it bombs, the coach is an asshole.

I think what separates the greats from the average is that they're not afraid too fail, take risks and fight for they want.
 
Oh, like I said, I agree with the sentiment that sometimes you have to "dare to be great" by defying convention, etc.

I'm just saying that the risks they took were actually artistic and they were all obviously competent early on. I just see it from experience people who are certain NOT as competent as a Tarantino, Rietman, etc. and who don't understand that they're not on that level yet and still make brash "artistic" decisions that usually don't impact the film like in the case of Tarantino's decision in RD. They're usually far more small and petty things that work to the detriment of the project in many ways just to get their way and that's the kind of thing I do see happen...but yeah, certainly I respect talented folks who buck convention and stay true to their vision. I just know of other folks who think they've got the same talent and are mildly delusional in that belief who 'act' like they're saving art but are really just being a pain in the neck. And to be honest, the people I'm talking about are the first to shift responsibility when the get everything they want and it doesn't translate well. It usually becomes an actor's fault, a D.P. issue, that damn sound guy, my asshole producer...whatever.

-Martin
 
Ted Spencer said:
Yes. "Overnight", the doc about the maniac who made "Boondock Saints" illustrates this perfectly. There's a huge difference between a real artist taking a stand and a hack who thinks he' a genius doing so. And unfortunately, there are far too many times as many of the latter as the former...
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Excellent example...I like that doc a lot and while I have never had to deal with someone as bad at that, I see folks exhibiting that kind of attitude unjustifiably at times which is the only reason I think that panels like that tend to give certain people a false sense of entitlement when they're a "director".

-M
 
My favorite part is when they're giving Jason crap about getting approval for his decision from his dad! LOL
 
See I think Troy Duffy just talks too much. I don't really think he is a bad Director or doesn't have potential but it is his mouth that gets in his way. It is also the non-appreciation for the others that were helping him get his movie made. I don't think it was his lack of experience but more of the lack of dignity that made it hard on him. However he still has a quality that most Directors have, tenacity. The movie did get made despite the walls he put in his own way.

Tarantino has a skill to write good dialogue and interesting scenes which I think that skill is what got him where he is today.
 
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