The Matrix Reloaded...was it always so horrible?

Batutta

Batutta

Major Contributor
I hadn't seen it since it first came out on dvd. My opinion of it then was that it was a mess, but intriguing, with some good sequences in it. Seeing it again now, it was damn near unwatchable, a jumbled collection of half baked ideas swirling in a sh*tstorm of dated cgi enhanced wire-fu and endless philosophical digressions. Most of all, it's just a terrible story that is close to being incomprehensible to anyone who didn't see the first movie. I watched it just after the first movie, so the gulf in quality between the two was even more pronounced. I really have no idea what the Wachowski's were thinking with those sequels. I don't think they know either.
 
i remember being entertained by it in the theater, but when i rewatched in on DVD a few years later... yikes.
 
Yeah it was bad. I was shaking my head through the whole experience. In my mind.... it never happened.
 
While I agree with what's been said so far... that freeway chase is a pretty incredible. I still hold my breath when Trinity turns the motorcycle around and goes against traffic.
 
+1 to Stephen. Yes, it was always that horribly unwatchable.

The only way to view the Matrix is as a standalone, one-and-done. The sequels do not exist. They are worse than the Star Wars prequels.
 
Barry_Green said:
They are worse than the Star Wars prequels.
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Neither of them are worse than The Phantom Menace. The Matrix sequels at the very least don't have atrocious child acting and Jar Jar Binks. A case can be made that Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith are marginally superior, though. But thinking of all five of these movies at the same time is making me sad.
 
I remember almost nothing about Matrix 2 & 3 and am happy not to. But it seems to me they had a similar problem to the Star Wars prequels -- they were telling backstory that in itself had no backstory.

What that means is the reason you have a backstory is to create a fuller world from which you can draw your story. It feels more real because you, the audience, understand that there is this fuller world out there and what you're seeing is only part of it . . . just like real life.

But if you're telling the backstory, it almost always feels paper-thin, because it IS. You don't have anything deeper than that going on.

Plus, you often find out that the backstory is kinda stupid, and you were better off not knowing more than a glimpse.
 
The problem with the Matrix sequels, beyond all the horror of them, is that you cannot do a sequel to something that ends as The Matrix did. At the end of the first one, he "believes" -- and he masters the universe of The Matrix. He can see through it. He can manipulate it. He can control it. He's capable of anything. He can dissolve and shred agents, because he has defeated the very nature of The Matrix. He can make The Matrix no longer exist.

He asked "So I can dodge bullets?" and Morpheus tells him "You won't have to." And he was right. And Neo knows this now, at the end, and he discards the agents' bullets as meaningless. He's won.

So in the second one... he's right back to fighting agents. Fistfights and punching. It makes no sense, and totally invalidates the accomplishments of the first one. It's like Highlander II, where they went in and rejected the premise of the first one. How do you have a sequel to a film in which "there can be only one?" You can't. It doesn't work.
 
Well, I don't know about that -- he still hadn't destroyed the Matrix at the end of the first one; he just said he was planning to -- and the way he did it implied it was a lot harder than just seeing the code. A decent sequel could have followed. Think of it like a superhero film; he got his powers, but evil isn't totally vanquished. There's still more to do.

Agreed totally on Highlander, but The Matrix wasn't that.
 
The Wachowskis are one hit wonders. As storytellers, they are as complete as Lana-dana-ding-dong.

Matrix sequels are just as bad as Star Wars prequels. At least Ep one had the last stand of John Williams epic ohfuckyeah'edness...
 
Missed it at the cinema so second ep of matrix, DVD. I was set for the night. 30 minutes later was doing something else.
 
David Jimerson said:
Well, I don't know about that -- he still hadn't destroyed the Matrix at the end of the first one; he just said he was planning to -- and the way he did it implied it was a lot harder than just seeing the code. A decent sequel could have followed. Think of it like a superhero film; he got his powers, but evil isn't totally vanquished. There's still more to do.
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I think they missed an opportunity with the sequels, especially with Reloaded, in not having the regular populace (the plugged-in citizens) seeing Neo as this awesome superhero. If one wanted to change the perception of people still tied into the matrix, showing them all these great powers and being a champion for the people would be one way to do it. Start showing them not only who the enemies are (Agents of the machines), but that their world is an illusion. Or maybe the machine overlords can wipe everyone's collective memory so they don't remember seeing Neo doing some heroic act? That would have been really interesting though, to see how the machines were trying to continue putting up the illusion.

We really saw none of that in the sequels. We only got "The Kid" character in the sequels who basically saw Neo as his hero, and a scene of the religious followers of The One waiting for Neo to return to Zion. There was some dialogue about how they freed a bunch more people in the time between the first film and Reloaded, but that's about it. I'm not saying that the sequels should have focused solely on that, but less Zion and more of the actual matrix city setting would have been preferable. Even looking at the stuff we got of the in-matrix sequences, there doesn't seem to be any consequences to the actions of either faction in many cases. It really feels much more like a video game, where as the first Matrix film felt like a video game a bit too, but one that was more like an MMO I guess. The difference between the computer controlling everything and actual people populating a virtual world. In the sequels, entire battles like Neo versus hundreds of Agent Smiths just goes on without hardly anyone noticing. And it was in the middle of a park surrounded by apartment buildings! A lot of the action in the sequels was cool, but also felt a bit sterile compared to the first film's action set pieces. The action bits in The Matrix were shorter but sweeter.

Oddly enough, this is why I much prefer Revolutions over Reloaded. The Matrix Revolutions actually had some action scenes and an overall feeling that seemed more in tune with the first film. Not only did the action seem more focused, it was more varied. Even the epic battle for Zion felt like it meant something beyond the cool effects because at least it was people fighting for their home. Not just some fancy pants kung fu scene or slick car chase like in Reloaded. Also, the ending fight in the rain was much more dynamic and interesting than the Neo versus hundreds of Smiths. They blew their wad with that one in the second film. They should have not had such an over-the-top fight that early in the progression of the sequels.

Having said all that, I don't know if I agree with the Matrix sequels being as bad as Batutta states. I certainly will take them over Highlander II, Star Wars Episodes I & II, Terminator 3, Alien Resurrection, AvP, JJ Abrams' Star Trek, or Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Sheesh! Wanna talk about a horrible sequel, the fourth Indiana Jones was just a mess.
 
Reloaded was terrible. I was bored the very first time I watched it in theaters, because Neo was invincible the whole time.

I actually enjoyed Revolutions though, because it added some drama back into the film.
 
Nektonic said:
II certainly will take them over Highlander II, Star Wars Episodes I & II, Terminator 3, Alien Resurrection, AvP, JJ Abrams' Star Trek, or Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Sheesh! Wanna talk about a horrible sequel, the fourth Indiana Jones was just a mess.
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You're making me sadder.
 
agcohn said:
I actually enjoyed Revolutions though, because it added some drama back into the film.
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Maybe I'm not as crazy as I thought regarding The Matrix Revolutions?

Batutta said:
You're making me sadder.
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I remember someone on this forum calling Star Trek (2009 reboot), something along the lines of a "grade A turd-burger".

That term seems to pop into my head oftentimes when people discuss movies that disappointed them.
 
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